# Etymology question about music **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 2, 2016, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-question-about-music/770446 "2016-11-02T15:07:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Victor\_Charlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7ea924/32.png) [@Victor\_Charlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Victor_Charlie)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2016, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-question-about-music/770446/1 "2016-11-02T15:07:15Z")
If the Muses represented multiple disciplines of the arts, how and why did the word music come to represent only, well, music. Why aren’t poetry, dance or comedy considered music. Would Calliope and Clio be pissed at this turn of events? ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2016, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-question-about-music/770446/2 "2016-11-02T15:18:27Z")
From a brief look at dictionaries: The ancient greeks did use it for anything inspired by the muses, but especially music. The Romans then borrowed the word for that specific meaning, and the rest is history. Details left to any actual scholars. ---
**Author:** ![Victor\_Charlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7ea924/32.png) [@Victor\_Charlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Victor_Charlie)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2016, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-question-about-music/770446/3 "2016-11-02T17:38:07Z")
> [@naita](#): > > Details left to any actual scholars. Yep, I found the basics. It’s the details I’m after, if they’re known. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2016, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-question-about-music/770446/4 "2016-11-02T20:17:26Z")
OED may be of help. > [@](#): > > From ancient Greek μουσική art presided over by the Muses, especially poetry sung to music, use as noun (short for μουσική τέχνη ; compare classical Latin ars mūsica ) of feminine of μουσικός relating to the Muse or Muses (applied generally to artistic culture, poetry, etc., but also spec. to music; \> classical Latin mūsicus ) \< μοῦσα muse n.1 + -ικός -ic suffix. In sense A. 3 \< post-classical Latin musica (plural) musical instruments (Vetus Latina, Vulgate; in classical Latin as mūsica in sense ‘musical matters, the art or principles of music’), use as noun of neuter plural of mūsicus musical ---
**Author:** ![Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/channing_idaho_banks/32/250_2.png) [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Channing_Idaho_Banks)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2016, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-question-about-music/770446/5 "2016-11-02T21:22:20Z")
A museum doesn’t necessarily have music, and it might not even have art. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2016, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-question-about-music/770446/6 "2016-11-02T22:13:53Z")
> [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](#): > > A museum doesn’t necessarily have music, and it might not even have art. The muses did not represent art. They represented **inspiration** , of both art and science. For example, Clio was the Muse of History, and Urania the Muse of Astronomy. The term “museum” was initially used for a place to worship the muses. The Romans narrowed the muses down to three, one for the motion of water, one for the sound made by striking the air, and the third for the human voice. This shows how the Romans focused specifically on music over the other kinds of inspiration represented by the muses. I’m not sure what led the Romans to do that except to say that they copied and adapted many concepts from Greek mythology and culture and altered them slightly (see how many Greek gods changed their names when they became Roman gods). Unfortunately the muses did not have antlers or hang out with flying squirrels. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2016, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-question-about-music/770446/7 "2016-11-02T23:02:23Z")
> [@Victor\_Charlie](#): > > Why aren’t poetry, dance or comedy considered music. Dance certainly was considered at least allied; [Terpsichore](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terpsichore)was the Greek muse of both dance and chorus. (She’s also the muse which was portrayed by Olivia Newton-John in “Xanadu”. 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2016, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-question-about-music/770446/8 "2016-11-02T23:17:51Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > … the muses did not have antlers or hang out with flying squirrels. And people wonder why they’ve fallen into obscurity. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2016, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-question-about-music/770446/9 "2016-11-04T20:40:44Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Dance certainly was considered at least allied; [Terpsichore](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terpsichore)was the Greek muse of both dance and chorus. > > (She’s also the muse which was portrayed by Olivia Newton-John in “Xanadu”. 🙂 ) Have roller skates been around since ancient Greece? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2016, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-question-about-music/770446/10 "2016-11-04T23:46:23Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > Have roller skates been around since ancient Greece? Hermes was close, but in his case they were little wings not wheels. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-question-about-music/770446/11 "2016-11-06T17:33:24Z")
OP question was OP for millennia. Professional etymologists eventually derived from water, or the nymphs thereby, although the word root in Greek, and later Latin, is obscure. I grabbed this article, but undoubtedly later work elaborates— “Musica Dicitur A Moys, Quod Est Aqua,” Noel Swerdlow, _Journal of the American Musicological Society_, XX:1, (Spring, 1967): From Isidore of Seville’s ca. 600 _[Etymologies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymologiae)_ (which was Europe’s Wiki for about a thousand years): _Et dicta Musica per derivationem a Musis. Musae autem appellate [greek not iPad-ed], id est a quaerendo, quod per eas, sicut antiqui voluerunt, vis et vocis modulate quaereretur._ (And Music is so called by deriva Muses. The Muses are named [ditto], that is, “from seeking,” the ancients said, the essence of songs [or poems] and the melody of is sought through them.) … \*Ipsas autem dicunt et Musas quas et nymphas, nec inmerito. Nam aqu musician efficit. \*(They say the Muses themselves are also nymphs, not without cause. For music is made by the movement of water). Cites 4th-century Servius commentary of Virgil; not unrelated (not in Servius or Isidore, however) Egyptian “Moses” cognate. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-question-about-music/770446/12 "2016-11-06T17:57:16Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > … > The Romans narrowed the muses down to three, one for the motion of water, one for the sound made by striking the air, and the third for the human voice. This shows how the Romans focused specifically on music over the other kinds of inspiration represented by the muses. … Correct, and this is the precursor of the above. I do not know why “water” won the competition–I’ll check [Aristoxenus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristoxenus) to see what kind of pride of place the killer Greek water organ the [hydraulis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_organ) gets; the name itself because it is both water (driver) _and_ air. Too bad it didn’t sing. And, to screw things around with a muse or two, Calliope got dragged in as the name of its rinky-dink successor. And the Aristoxenus tradition is the one that OP is probably familiar with: the stuff we hear. Remember, “music” swings both ways. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-question-about-music/770446/13 "2016-11-06T22:00:10Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > … > > The Romans narrowed the muses down to three, one for the motion of water, one for the sound made by striking the air, and the third for the human voice. This shows how the Romans \*focused specifically on music over the other kinds of inspiration \*represented by the muses… [ital added] I feel honor bound to note, since classical music theory is afoot, and its revival and elaboration was a hallmark of humanism, that the word used by **Atamasama** and so readily understood by us, has strong roots in 2nd century Galenic physiology–which ruled the roost in the West until the Renaissance-- of “pneuma”–breath/inspiration, which was integrated into a rich philosophical _and_ physiological model for hearing (including music and its effects ) by Ficino and the neo-Platonism of the 15th century. ([Marsilio Ficino (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)](http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/ficino/)) FWIW, in at least one regulation book in an early medieval scriptorium, a fart was not to interrupt work or be adversely commented on, as it is a sign that the divine _inflatus_ was literally “inspiring” the servant of God. FWIW #2, perhaps I should say this post is “self-honor bound,” because I nearly died writing a graduate seminar paper showing the progression of the idea and its elaboration in Renaissance thought. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-question-about-music/770446/14 "2016-11-06T22:49:13Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > I feel honor bound to note, since classical music theory is afoot, and its revival and elaboration was a hallmark of humanism, that the word used by **Atamasama** and so readily understood by us, has strong roots in 2nd century Galenic physiology–which ruled the roost in the West until the Renaissance-- of “pneuma”–breath/inspiration, which was integrated into a rich philosophical _and_ physiological model for hearing (including music and its effects ) by Ficino and the neo-Platonism of the 15th century. ([Marsilio Ficino (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)](http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/ficino/)) > > FWIW, in at least one regulation book in an early medieval scriptorium, a fart was not to interrupt work or be adversely commented on, as it is a sign that the divine _inflatus_ was literally “inspiring” the servant of God. > > FWIW #2, perhaps I should say this post is “self-honor bound,” because I nearly died writing a graduate seminar paper showing the progression of the idea and its elaboration in Renaissance thought. You suffered for your wisdom; now it’s our turn? Kidding, kidding. Thanks for the post - interesting.