# Etymology - Upper crust **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 4, 2005, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-upper-crust/329568 "2005-11-04T22:41:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-upper-crust/329568/1 "2005-11-04T22:41:37Z")
Forgive me; the search function gives less than helpful results. Is there concensus on the origin of the phrase “upper crust” refering to the high levels of society. I know that some sites I see on the web indicate earliest use about 1836, but don’t seem to indicate how the use got started. I did find one [web site](http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-BREADS/trenchers-msg.text) (search for the word “upper”) where textual support for the possibility of the term relating to how bread was served is mentioned. Any help? ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-upper-crust/329568/2 "2005-11-04T22:46:50Z")
[This might help](http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=upper+crust&searchmode=none), although it doesn’t provide a full answer (never expect these from etymological questions!). Googling with inverted commas around terms such as ‘upper crust’ can help a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-upper-crust/329568/3 "2005-11-04T22:53:28Z")
If recent programs on UK TV History are to be believed, then it’s a reference to those who were served the upper parts of bread loaves, as the bottom of the loaf would have burnt bits. IIRC on the TV show they sliced the bottom off and cut the rest of the loaf in three. The servants got the bottom bit. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-upper-crust/329568/4 "2005-11-04T22:57:13Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Is there concensus on the origin of the phrase “upper crust” refering to the high levels of society. > Any help? They’re a load of crumbs held together by dough. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-upper-crust/329568/5 "2005-11-04T23:12:34Z")
While the origin of the term seems clear, the metaphorical use is probably not that complicated. [The Word Detective](http://www.word-detective.com/080401.html#uppercrust): > [@](#): > > The term “upper crust,” referring literally to the upper portion of a loaf of bread, is indeed very old, dating back to at least 1460. Subsequent instances of “upper crust” included its figurative use as a synonym for the surface of the earth (1555) and as slang for, believe it or not, a hat (1826). > > But the metaphorical use of “upper crust” in its modern sense of “the aristocracy or the wealthy class” seems, as Mr. Bryson says, to have first occurred in early 19th century America, and was widespread enough by 1848 to be included by John Bartlett in his seminal “Dictionary of Americanisms” published that year. And the term simply refers to the “upper layers” of society in an economic sense, not to the perceived superiority of any portion of a loaf of bread. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-upper-crust/329568/6 "2005-11-04T23:26:21Z")
While I like Evan’s answer, his referring to “Bryson” sets off alarm bells in my mind. I’m sure he’s probably right, but I’ll search a few things and be back. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-upper-crust/329568/7 "2005-11-04T23:39:07Z")
And indeed, Evan Morris’ answer is correct, as per **Exapno**. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-upper-crust/329568/8 "2005-11-04T23:42:36Z")
Snopes indicates that it’s true (on an article about ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-upper-crust/329568/9 "2005-11-04T23:46:43Z")
[Snopes](http://www.snopes.com/language/phrases/1500.htm) indicates it’s true, on an article debunking other language myths. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2005, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-upper-crust/329568/10 "2005-11-05T00:04:12Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > [Snopes](http://www.snopes.com/language/phrases/1500.htm) indicates it’s true, on an article debunking other language myths. Well, here’s where Barbara(snopes) and I part ways. She relied on _Robert Hendrickson’s_ mis-interpretation of the OED cite for the bread meaning. Hendrickson[_Word and Phrase Origins_) is one of the worst books you can use for word origins. Don’t **ever** trust anything you read in his book. The useage in the 1460 cite was only about a loaf of bread. There was never a follow-up cite that has been found before the early 1800’s in the US that would indicate it meant anything to do with _class_. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2005, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-upper-crust/329568/11 "2005-11-05T02:46:24Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > Well, here’s where Barbara(snopes) and I part ways. > > She relied on _Robert Hendrickson’s_ mis-interpretation of the OED cite for the bread meaning. > > Hendrickson[_Word and Phrase Origins_) is one of the worst books you can use for word origins. Don’t **ever** trust anything you read in his book. > > The useage in the 1460 cite was only about a loaf of bread. There was never a follow-up cite that has been found before the early 1800’s in the US that would indicate it meant anything to do with _class_. **samclem** , what about the text I referenced in the OP? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2005, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-upper-crust/329568/12 "2005-11-05T04:29:23Z")
The cite is from [The Boke of Keruynge (Book of Carving) [1508], by Wynken de Worde](http://www.oxbowbooks.com/bookinfo.cfm/ID/53915//Location/DBBC) The phrase is attested as early as 1898 from [E. Cobham Brewer’s Dictionary of Phrase and Fable](http://www.bartleby.com/81/16995.html). My problem is that all the hits I get against the phrase - all of 5 - come back to that same source quoting the book rather than to the book itself. I can’t find a copy of the book online in a quick search. However, the book may even be the same as the 1460 source. Amazon UK says, weirdly truncated: > [@](#): > > In 1508, Caxton’s successor Worde printed an extremely shortened version of a manuscript from about 1430-40 outlining the duties of each courtly domestic servant, for the benefit of young men of the noble class who were functioning as servants at their own or another’s court in order to learn the intricate formalities of courtly life. He also drew I’d like more info, but this is perhaps a false sighting. Or citing, either one.