# EURO 2012 Poland/Ukraine \[OPEN SPOILERS\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 2, 2012, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883 "2012-06-02T18:19:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2012, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/221 "2012-06-16T08:54:03Z")
England for the win? I have lost a huge pot of money betting on them since circa 2002. But, and this is important, I have a gut feeling they might pull it off here. Like Chelsea. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2012, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/222 "2012-06-16T09:22:26Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I saw him rather forcefully mocking Joe Hart after one of the goals. I hate to see that, there’s no need for it and it rather sours the reputation of a very talented player. A shame. I think what happened there was that Ibrahimovic was remonstrating with Hart, who had pushed some Swedish players out of the goalmouth, where they had been celebrating. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2012, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/223 "2012-06-16T10:12:18Z")
It was a deliberate backheel by Welbeck, he wasn’t trying to cushion the ball. > [@AK84](#): > > England for the win? I have lost a huge pot of money betting on them since circa 2002. But, and this is important, I have a gut feeling they might pull it off here. Like Chelsea. I’d advise you to keep your money. ---
**Author:** ![Busy\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2012, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/224 "2012-06-16T11:14:05Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > It was a deliberate backheel by Welbeck, he wasn’t trying to cushion the ball. > > I’d advise you to keep your money. Agreed - keep your money in your pocket where England are concerned. Unless you’re into the lay market - must be some value there for England. Think they’ll get out of the group but they won’t be able to beat a good side. There’s only two properly good sides in the tournament though, so they might get a good run still. Depends on the QF draw. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2012, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/225 "2012-06-16T11:58:46Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > I have a gut feeling they might pull it off here. I have this problem too. It seems to recur every 2 years or so. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I saw him rather forcefully mocking Joe Hart after one of the goals. I hate to see that, there’s no need for it and it rather sours the reputation of a very talented player. A shame. I don’t remember that exact incident, but mocking is kind of what a mean. A few times I just thought he was trying to look too casual - like he could outplay his opponents blindfolded - and he lost the ball most of those times because of it. If I were a Swede I’d be disappointed by that, just as I seem to be continually disappointed by Rooney’s behaviour. It would be nice to see more sportsmanship in sport. Wasn’t he wearing an armband that said “respect”? Anyway, I’m looking forward to Rooney’s return, but a bit nervous about England coming up against any good sides. Their performance in the last two matches isn’t going to work against Spain, but I thought the players were fairly impressive as individuals so there is still some hope 😛 ---
**Author:** ![MJinks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@MJinks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MJinks)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2012, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/226 "2012-06-16T12:37:27Z")
Berbatov scored a similar goal against Fulham in the last Premier League season. [Link](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3zzcPkd01k). As they play on the same team it strikes me as something they might have messed about with or practiced on the training ground. I don’t think it was luck at all. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2012, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/227 "2012-06-16T13:50:54Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > I think what happened there was that Ibrahimovic was remonstrating with Hart, who had pushed some Swedish players out of the goalmouth, where they had been celebrating. Well I hope that’s the case, I’d certainly be less irked if it is. I didn’t see the full barrage of TV angles so all I caught was him apparently doing a “ner ner na ner ner!” act and if it was unprovoked childishness of that type I’d be disappointed. (though, echoing bozuit’s point above, not surprised) Anyhow…on to tonight’s smorgasbord of footballing treats. No team out of it, concurrent games, “picture in picture” tested and functional…beer is chilling and burgers are ready to go. I fancy thrills and spills before the night is out. My call? I have absolutely no idea. The Greeks are possibly the worst team and Russia possibly the best. I’ll call it a draw between Greece and Russia and host pride to take Poland to victory over the Czechs. But really there is no single outstanding team in this group. Fascinating. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2012, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/228 "2012-06-16T14:29:14Z")
I really hope Poland go through, because I want at least one of the hosts to make it, but if Ukraine do beat England, as they need to, it would most probably knock England out. Poland and Czech Republic seem quite evenly matched, but Poland have to win. Should be intense. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2012, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/229 "2012-06-16T20:38:41Z")
Wow. Kudos to you if you had Greece and the Czech Republic going through! ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2012, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/230 "2012-06-16T20:43:45Z")
Certainly didn’t expect that one, after watching the first half of the Greece-Poland match, and also seeing Russia demolish the Czechs. Oh well, Greece could probably use a bit of good news right now. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2012, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/231 "2012-06-16T20:48:33Z")
That’s Germany into the semi-finals, then 😃 . Knife-edge stuff - if Poland had taken that last minute chance, the Czechs would have been out and Russia would be through as group winners. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2012, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/232 "2012-06-16T20:49:44Z")
Greece are a bit of a byword for winning ugly, but I like to think of them as the plucky underdogs using their tools to the best of their capabilities. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2012, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/233 "2012-06-16T20:58:35Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > Certainly didn’t expect that one, after watching the first half of the Greece-Poland match, and also seeing Russia demolish the Czechs. Oh well, Greece could probably use a bit of good news right now. Russia was all over Greece in the match, but just couldn’t finish. It was fun (and tense) to watch. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2012, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/234 "2012-06-16T21:04:25Z")
> [@MJinks](#): > > Berbatov scored a similar goal against Fulham in the last Premier League season. [Link](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3zzcPkd01k). As they play on the same team it strikes me as something they might have messed about with or practiced on the training ground. I don’t think it was luck at all. I have no doubt that’s what Welbeck was _attempting_ to do – a back-heel blind flip – but there’s certainly _luck involved_ in actually making contact with the ball at the right angle. In short, you try that play ten times, and you make three, consider yourself a Master of that particular skill. * * * Russia out, upended by the Greek’s ugly but effective defensive play. Doubt they’ll get any further as they now play the winner of the Group Of Death. Czechs rudely dismiss one of the co-hosts. Group A is done. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2012, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/235 "2012-06-16T22:31:42Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > I have no doubt that’s what Welbeck was _attempting_ to do – a back-heel blind flip – but there’s certainly _luck involved_ in actually making contact with the ball at the right angle. In short, you try that play ten times, and you make three, consider yourself a Master of that particular skill. And of course the same can be said for free kicks or a lot of other things in football. ---
**Author:** ![MJinks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@MJinks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MJinks)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2012, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/236 "2012-06-17T02:38:22Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > I have no doubt that’s what Welbeck was _attempting_ to do – a back-heel blind flip – but there’s certainly _luck involved_ in actually making contact with the ball at the right angle. In short, you try that play ten times, and you make three, consider yourself a Master of that particular skill. If there is no bobble, no deflection, no sudden gust of wind and the direction of the ball is completely dependent on your intended contact then surely that must be classed as skill and not luck? If he’d missed I wouldn’t have called him unlucky (unless a fan threw a banana at it and changed its course). Luck to me would imply something beyond your control - though I’m happy to agree to disagree so we can get back to the footy, heh. Judging by the results so far and looking back to the crazy year of football I’m going to make some bold (insane) predictions for the next few games… Germany 0 - 2 Denmark Portugal 0 - 0 Netherlands Germany top, Denmark second. Croatia 1 - 0 Spain Italy 4 - 0 RoIreland (I’m not _that_ insane) Croatia top, Italy second. England 0 - 1 Ukraine France 1 - 3 Sweden Ukraine top, England second\* \*England and France would both be on 4 points with the same head-to-head record, same goal difference and same number of goals scored. England would progress because they have a higher ranking. I would never stop laughing. I wont be putting any money on those predictions because I abhor gambling. That’s the only reason. Please believe me… ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2012, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/237 "2012-06-17T04:20:29Z")
How have you got Ukraine beating England? Shevchenko’s two goals in the first match looked like all they had to offer to me. ---
**Author:** ![polar\_bear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ec9cab/32.png) [@polar\_bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/polar_bear)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2012, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/238 "2012-06-17T09:40:25Z")
MJjinks: your group B results has Denmark above Germany. For the rest only your Italy result makes sense, I think the Dutch will sooner lose by a couple than hold out for a 0-0 draw (they need a 2 goal win right). But yesterdays results show that a lot can happen. ---
**Author:** ![MJinks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@MJinks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MJinks)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2012, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/239 "2012-06-17T12:01:26Z")
I know the results are unlikely, that’s entirely why I predicted them 😉 . At this point I wouldn’t be surprised if Netherlands v Portugal really does end 0-0. I certainly wouldn’t be surprised if England find a way to lose to Ukraine. In all honesty I expect the better teams to see things out but c’mon Chelsea won the Champions League! > [@polar\_bear](#): > > MJjinks: your group B results has Denmark above Germany Damn, good catch. ---
**Author:** ![Laggard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de053/32.png) [@Laggard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laggard)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2012, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/240 "2012-06-17T16:21:41Z")
Only able to watch one match today. Which one would y’all choose? Tough call. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883.md?page=13)