# EURO 2012 Poland/Ukraine \[OPEN SPOILERS\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 2, 2012, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883 "2012-06-02T18:19:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/341 "2012-06-20T13:04:21Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > And people wonder why it hasn’t really caught on in the US. Thanks for sharing your incisive analysis. ---
**Author:** ![Busy\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/342 "2012-06-20T13:15:10Z")
Rooney has such a massive dynamic range of performance, more so than any other class player I can think of. When he’s bad, he just stinks. Last night was not at this level, but he looked very ordinary. Most other class players’ version of a bad game is being a bit quiet, not getting involved - their touch and technique is still evident, though. Bad Rooney looks like he’s rolled out for the Coach and Horses sunday eleven. England in with a shout against Italy but will really struggle to score. So will Italy though so it could be the grimmest of games. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/343 "2012-06-20T13:21:29Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > We do wonder some times, but rarely do we care. Well said. The football world, strangely, is not desperately waiting for the nod of acceptance from good ol’ Uncle Sam. Play it or don’t play it, but don’t whinge about how it ought to be made different to accommodate the taste of Americans (“And in the fourth period of overplay with just 12 seconds on the clock a touchthrough from the forward offense makes it 35-34 to the North London Arsenal In Association With Taco Bell…”) **hammos1** : Thanks. The mighty T&T, how could I forget that glorious night? ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/344 "2012-06-20T13:31:22Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > There’s so much time-wasting going on it’s the only sport that adds time on at the end of each half to make up for it. Not to indulge the semi-thread-shit, but Australian Rules Football does the same thing, as far as I know. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/345 "2012-06-20T13:37:06Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > For what is supposed to be the world’s most popular sport, it’s really hard to take football seriously if they don’t even know how to keep score. Yeah, because things like that _never_ happen in other sports. Have you not heard of Calvin Johnson? > [@](#): > > There’s so much time-wasting going on it’s the only sport that adds time on at the end of each half to make up for it. No, it’s just the only sport that Americans occasionally watch that has time added on. Both rugby codes have the same rule. So does field hockey. Thanks for playing, though. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/346 "2012-06-20T14:04:34Z")
Some interesting matchups in the quarter finals. I think Portugal will go through. Even as a Ronaldo fan, I thought he was fantastic against Holland. He really seemed up for it and the Dutch couldn’t keep up with him. His pace at times was scary and my hope is that he repeats that level of performance again, I think the tournament needs a superstar to make it a bit more memorable. England v Italy could go either way. Italy are a better team, but I can see England winning this one. Its a gut feeling, I think they will win to reach the semi’s and consider that a good tournament. Germany will beat Greece. That is all. I think France could well spring the shock of the round. They have the players to beat Spain, and although Spain still are quality they are going to lose sometime. I picked Germany to win before the tournament, and have the money down to prove it. (I actually have Germany to win, and Gomez to be top scorer @ 28/1. Looking good so far!) ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/347 "2012-06-20T14:37:57Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > …In Association With Taco Bell… I agree that you don’t change the game just to appeal to an American audience. The game is fine just the way it is, although it could use some tweaks such as eliminating the constant flopping (for one thing, our basketball players have learned to do this and it’s degrading that sport too) and better officiating/goal line technology. But the one thing that is laughable about European soccer is the uniforms. I guess it’s the byproduct of not enough advertising time, but still, the team name should be the most prominent item on a uniform and not “Aon” or “[bwin.com](http://bwin.com)”. At least our corporate overlord pimps don’t brand our prostitutes (yet). ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/348 "2012-06-20T14:41:44Z")
Oh, for England it is already a satisfactory tournament. We don’t have much talent, even if we did we’re historically rubbish, and the preparation has been chaotic. Getting out of the group is job done, anything else is gravy. Can’t really see how we’ll get past Italy unless we’re lucky. They’ll have so much of the ball. It could be similar to the France game, except Italy have a better defence. The real kiss of death is that Alan Hansen has declared this Italian side to be “ordinary”, and with Steven Gerrard surging forward… yadda yadda yadda. This is the same guy who [dismissed Germany as “average”](http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL2729157BFBF59061&v=hkP1Rf0bJ_E&feature=player_detailpage#t=37s) in 2010, before they thrashed us 4-2, and then Argentina 4-0. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/349 "2012-06-20T14:51:31Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > At least our corporate overlord pimps don’t brand our prostitutes (yet). To be fair, in American football the [whole team is pimped](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_franchise_moves_and_mergers). Those of us watching football in Europe find it very strange that a team can move from one city to the next and yet still be the same team and play in the same league. The concept of a football team as a “franchise” is alien to us and that seems far worse than having a bit of advertising on a shirt. That may be why the fans over here don’t mind it. The adverts may change but Man U. is always going to be Man U. and will always be in Manchester (little bit of bait to those of a blue persuasion there). ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/350 "2012-06-20T14:58:07Z")
And Cardiff City will always be the Bluebirds, and Austria Salzburg will always be Aust… oh. ---
**Author:** ![mkecane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@mkecane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mkecane)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/351 "2012-06-20T15:01:20Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > I guess it’s the byproduct of not enough advertising time, but still, the team name should be the most prominent item on a uniform and not “Aon” or “[bwin.com](http://bwin.com)”. At least our corporate overlord pimps don’t brand our prostitutes (yet). Oh, how they would love to, though. I think it’s coming soon in the NBA, and once that domino falls, I expect the NFL and MLB to follow soon after. With the NFL and MLB, I think it will be less prominent (patches on sleeves in baseball, and on the chest near the shoulder for the NFL), but still there. Also, NASCAR has been this way for decades. At least in soccer, we don’t hear Rooney in the post-match interview thank Aon and Turkish Air before he talks about the match, which is done in racing. Is Chiellini going to play for Italy? I’ll say if he plays, Italy will win. If he doesn’t, I’ll pick England. For the criticism of Rooney, he wasn’t his best, but it’s not like he got great service. Gerrard was good yesterday, but Milner and Parker aren’t exactly lighting up the Euros. Young didn’t do much, and Welbeck, like Rooney, is dependent on service. I’ll predict Germany, Portugal, Spain, and toss-up. I still like Portugal to make the final and win it! ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/352 "2012-06-20T15:02:25Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > For what is supposed to be the world’s most popular sport no “supposed” about it > [@](#): > > And people wonder why it hasn’t really caught on in the US. You’ve got your pretty little heads distracted by lesser sports my friend. But that is temporary. The increase in hispanic population will soon see to that and I’m sure you’ll see the light. Once you’ve accepted that level of sophistication then we may even allow you to play cricket and rugby. Baby steps though. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/353 "2012-06-20T15:04:37Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > And Cardiff City will always be the Bluebirds, and Austria Salzburg will always be Aust… oh. But you prove my point for me. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/354 "2012-06-20T15:07:02Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > But the one thing that is laughable about European soccer is the uniforms. I guess it’s the byproduct of not enough advertising time, but still, the team name should be the most prominent item on a uniform and not “Aon” or “[bwin.com](http://bwin.com)”. At least our corporate overlord pimps don’t brand our prostitutes (yet). Whats laughable is that you actually stop your professional sports mid-game so that a TV network can show an advertisement. Branding jerseys isn’t even in the same league as that lunacy. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/355 "2012-06-20T15:07:46Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > The concept of a football team as a “franchise” is alien to us and that seems far worse than having a bit of advertising on a shirt. That may be why the fans over here don’t mind it. The adverts may change but Man U. is always going to be Man U. and will always be in Manchester (little bit of bait to those of a blue persuasion there). _cough_ MK Dons _cough_ ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/356 "2012-06-20T15:10:54Z")
> [@Busy\_Scissors](#): > > Rooney has such a massive dynamic range of performance, more so than any other class player I can think of. When he’s bad, he just stinks. Last night was not at this level, but he looked very ordinary.. I think Rooney’s greatest asset is his vision and if he isn’t reading the game well it understandable why he struggles. Plus, he thrives on spotting the good running of others and if such runs aren’t being made (as was the case last night) then it is always going to be hard to get him in the game. ---
**Author:** ![Cumbrian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@Cumbrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cumbrian)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/357 "2012-06-20T15:11:41Z")
> [@mkecane](#): > > Milner and Parker aren’t exactly lighting up the Euros. All fairness, this is not really Parker’s job. Parker’s job is to provide defensive shape and throw himself at the shots that opposition wind up taking after they get bored of passing it around the edge of England’s area. Milner is no offensive juggernaut either - he’s in the team for similar reasons - tactical shape and what not. It means that England wind up relying heavily on Gerrard, Young, Rooney and any of the other options that can be used (Welbeck, Walcott, Oxlade-Chamberlain) to provide attacking flair and chances. All this means, of course, is that we wind up playing, effectively, 4 on 8 or 9 in the attacking third of the field, so we don’t look like scoring lots. It’s part of the plan though - Hodgson recognised our basic lack of talent and has set out to make us difficult to beat. Thus far I have few complaints (it won’t take us much further, but as I said up thread, I think they’ve marginally overachieved in this tournament already). It’s no accident that we’ve scored at least 3 goals this tournament from set pieces or the immediate aftermath. It’s the only time we consider committing some more men forward. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/358 "2012-06-20T15:14:31Z")
Why isn’t Walcott starting? He created more problems for Sweden in 25 minutes than everyone else combined in the other 65. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/359 "2012-06-20T15:16:23Z")
> [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > _cough_ MK Dons _cough_ But again, that is precisely my point. Remember the hoo-haa that the move caused. The team was disowned by previous supporters and had to cut all it’s ties with any previous incarnations. Did MK Dons ever win the FA cup? And it is such an easy case to remember because of its rarity and the problems it caused. ---
**Author:** ![Cumbrian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@Cumbrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cumbrian)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/360 "2012-06-20T15:18:26Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Why isn’t Walcott starting? He created more problems for Sweden in 25 minutes than everyone else combined in the other 65. As above - it’s to do with defensive shape and people being on the field who know their defensive role to stop England conceding goals. He does provide a lot going forward, but as Arsenal fans will attest, he does not help his full backs out consistently. That and he also picked up a knock in the Sweden game I believe. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883.md?page=19)