# EURO 2012 Poland/Ukraine \[OPEN SPOILERS\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 2, 2012, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883 "2012-06-02T18:19:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/361 "2012-06-20T15:18:29Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Why isn’t Walcott starting? He created more problems for Sweden in 25 minutes than everyone else combined in the other 65. I believe he pulled a hamstring after the Sweden game. I was out last night, so didn’t hear if he was passed fit or not. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/362 "2012-06-20T15:20:40Z")
He came on around half time of the Ukraine match. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/363 "2012-06-20T15:24:17Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Why isn’t Walcott starting? He created more problems for Sweden in 25 minutes than everyone else combined in the other 65. [MOSS] what was he thinking sending Walcott on that early?[/MOSS] One thought is that he causes those problems in the final 25 minutes because he _hasn’t_ played the previous 65. Plus he is carrying a niggle ( ™ footy cliche) ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/364 "2012-06-20T16:44:59Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > For what is supposed to be the world’s most popular sport, it’s really hard to take football seriously if they don’t even know how to keep score. Hockey and tennis have much smaller objects moving a heck of a lot faster and somehow manage to get it right. > > And don’t give me this bullcrap about how it would ‘interrupt the flow of play’ - so much as breathe on a player and he succumbs to the inevitable pull of gravity to flop around like a dying fish, then the team will make a three-act play out of taking the resulting free kick. There’s so much time-wasting going on it’s the only sport that adds time on at the end of each half to make up for it. > > So, we have a sport that has more floppers than a Romney look-alike convention, where nobody knows how to keep score, with games that no one really knows how long will last (coupled with clear evidence that referees are significantly influenced by home/away crowd and proximity of the crowd to the pitch in how many minutes they add on to games when the home side is winning/losing). > > And people wonder why it hasn’t really caught on in the US. Cool story bro. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/365 "2012-06-20T16:49:15Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I’m sticking with Germany and Spain and leaning more towards my lederhosen loving teutonic friends. I think Spain will struggle more against France than they would against England. How many Germans will be able to walk after the Greece game? It’ll be like the Hungary-USSR water polo match all over again 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/366 "2012-06-20T16:51:45Z")
Were France as bad against Sweden as the outcome suggests? > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > One thought is that he causes those problems in the final 25 minutes because he _hasn’t_ played the previous 65. Perhaps, but no other sub has caused as many problems for an opposing team. ---
**Author:** ![Cumbrian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@Cumbrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cumbrian)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/367 "2012-06-20T17:02:28Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Were France as bad against Sweden as the outcome suggests? Yes - they looked utterly disinterested. Ibra scored a bloody good goal but 2-0 was an accurate reflection of just how much effort the French put in. All that said, I still expect them to push Spain. It will help that Mexes (who looks fat and slow and has been exposed in Serie A all season) is not available and Blanc will have to play Koscielny (or however you spell his name) - which should make them less defensively vulnerable. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/368 "2012-06-20T17:30:39Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Perhaps, but no other sub has caused as many problems for an opposing team. True, he was deployed to great effect. Hodgson’s tactical changes have appeared to work thus far and that give us a little hope perhaps. Coming on last night we just didn’t use him at all. Following on from my earlier post, had Rooney been on better form I’d back him to look for the runs from Walcott or even “force” them through his passing into space. But Rooney has to be sharper for that to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/369 "2012-06-20T18:01:05Z")
> [@Cumbrian](#): > > Yes - they looked utterly disinterested. Ibra scored a bloody good goal but 2-0 was an accurate reflection of just how much effort the French put in. > > All that said, I still expect them to push Spain. It will help that Mexes (who looks fat and slow and has been exposed in Serie A all season) is not available and Blanc will have to play Koscielny (or however you spell his name) - which should make them less defensively vulnerable. My source inside France told me the French commentators were more enthusiastic for Sweden than their own team. However, I wouldn’t even be surprised if they beat Spain. France seems even more temperamental than England in football - they can be considerably more awful but also considerably better and they often seem to step up when they really need to. I’d love to see that actually, just to see a major contender out the way. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_jeffrey_lebowski/32/215_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Jeffrey_Lebowski)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/370 "2012-06-20T18:09:12Z")
As a casual observer of international footie (and therefore not fully informed), I am curious to hear any positives about Rooney’s performance. While that missed header was ugly, he did get to the space mostly unchecked (as he also did on his goal) - is that not commendable at all? If his form doesn’t improve against Italy, can we expect to see Andy Carroll as a sub? ---
**Author:** ![by-tor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/by-tor/32/266_2.png) [@by-tor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/by-tor)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/371 "2012-06-20T18:23:07Z")
When Portugal is on, they look very good. England looks like a whole different team with Walcott playing. Much more alive. I went and looked at Rooney’s “greatest hits” on youtube because every time I have seen him play, he sucks. Well, he seems to score most of his goals from far out beyond the box. They should feed him balls there. The England goal was mostly due to luck. They can’t count on that kind of thing happening every game. Ukraine was robbed of a legitimate goal but it probably would not have made a difference, although they really did play better than England for the most part. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/372 "2012-06-20T18:26:46Z")
> [@by-tor](#): > > Ukraine was robbed of a legitimate goal but it probably would not have made a difference, although they really did play better than England for the most part. The Ukraine “goal” was offside. And I think they only played better in the first half, really. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/373 "2012-06-20T18:42:33Z")
Two wrongs don’t make a right: [Head of referees Pierluigi Collina defended UEFA’s experimental system of extra goalline officials on Wednesday but admitted to an “unfortunate mistake” that controversially helped eliminate Ukraine from Euro 2012.](http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/06/20/uk-soccer-euro-collina-referees-idUKBRE85J0Z320120620) ---
**Author:** ![mkecane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@mkecane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mkecane)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/374 "2012-06-20T19:35:08Z")
> [@by-tor](#): > > I went and looked at Rooney’s “greatest hits” on youtube because every time I have seen him play, he sucks. Well, he seems to score most of his goals from far out beyond the box. They should feed him balls there. Most great looking goals are probably scored from outside the box. Who wants to watch a youtube video of Wayne Rooney’s Greatest Tap-ins, or Greatest Rebound Goals, or Greatest Deflected Goals? But the goal counts the same obviously no matter where it’s scored from, so they’re not going to tell Rooney to keep trying from 30 yards out because it seemed to work on youtube. Do you think he sucks for England, or do you watch him with United and think he sucks there, too? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/375 "2012-06-20T20:00:51Z")
Thanks, **Cumbrian**. > [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](#): > > As a casual observer of international footie (and therefore not fully informed), I am curious to hear any positives about Rooney’s performance. While that missed header was ugly, he did get to the space mostly unchecked (as he also did on his goal) - is that not commendable at all? If his form doesn’t improve against Italy, can we expect to see Andy Carroll as a sub? He did a really good job of stealing the ball when Ukraine were passing it around at the back, and of losing his markers on crosses and corners and the like. He just wasn’t much good with the ball at his feet. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/376 "2012-06-20T20:13:45Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Two wrongs don’t make a right: > > [Head of referees Pierluigi Collina defended UEFA’s experimental system of extra goalline officials on Wednesday but admitted to an “unfortunate mistake” that controversially helped eliminate Ukraine from Euro 2012.](http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/06/20/uk-soccer-euro-collina-referees-idUKBRE85J0Z320120620) They do when the second wrong would not have happened if not for the first. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/377 "2012-06-20T20:54:24Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Two wrongs don’t make a right: > > [Head of referees Pierluigi Collina defended UEFA’s experimental system of extra goalline officials on Wednesday but admitted to an “unfortunate mistake” that controversially helped eliminate Ukraine from Euro 2012.](http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/06/20/uk-soccer-euro-collina-referees-idUKBRE85J0Z320120620) I wouldn’t say the situation is right, but the scoreline was. If anything, the only side wronged was England who missed out on a free kick for the offside. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/378 "2012-06-20T21:00:16Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > Whats laughable is that you actually stop your professional sports mid-game so that a TV network can show an advertisement. Branding jerseys isn’t even in the same league as that lunacy. Not quite. We stop our games at reasonable intervals to make the entire game more competitive and entertaining. It just so happens it allows time to air commercials that pay the bills. This way, our athletes don’t have to make mockeries of our sports by faking injuries, wasting time, standing around, etc. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/379 "2012-06-20T21:08:39Z")
My completely uninformed guesses for the quarterfinals: Czech 0 - Portugal 2 Germany 2 - Greece 1 Spain 2 - France 0 England 0 - Italy 1 ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/380 "2012-06-20T21:18:32Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > Not quite. We stop our games at reasonable intervals to make the entire game more competitive and entertaining. It just so happens it allows time to air commercials that pay the bills. This way, our athletes don’t have to make mockeries of our sports by faking injuries, wasting time, standing around, etc. This bickering is pointless, as Grand Moff Tarkin himself said, although admittedly not in reference to the European Championships. Soccer caters to commercial breaks too. Kick-offs are carefully timed to allow for commercial breaks. And other major non-American sports such as cricket hold up play for commercial breaks all the time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883.md?page=20)