# EURO 2012 Poland/Ukraine \[OPEN SPOILERS\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 2, 2012, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883 "2012-06-02T18:19:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/381 "2012-06-20T21:22:20Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > This bickering is pointless… Agreed. Sorry for the hijack. Now, on to football! (The round ball kind) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/382 "2012-06-20T22:06:42Z")
The roundest ball ever, I hear. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/383 "2012-06-20T22:21:17Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > They do when the second wrong would not have happened if not for the first. True. But blown offside calls are almost an every match occurrence. Phantom goals? Not so much. In fact, off the top of my head I remember two others involving England: '66 WC Final & Lampard’s blast vs Germany in South Africa. Care to list the number of controversial offside goals each an every season/tournament? A dime a dozen. Now, granted, both could and should be easily corrected by inept FIFA, simply by using technology long available. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/384 "2012-06-20T22:23:39Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > Agreed. Sorry for the hijack. Now, on to football! (The round ball kind) Is there another kind? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/385 "2012-06-20T22:27:12Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > I wouldn’t say the situation is right, but the scoreline was. If anything, the only side wronged was England who missed out on a free kick for the offside. Head referee is clearly saying the goal should have counted – all else included. At least that is how I read it. Mind you, not an appeal to authority, just matches my own view per post to NATB. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/386 "2012-06-20T22:34:14Z")
He didn’t mention the offside, so it’s impossible to say if he thought the goal should have counted. He’s saying the ball was in the goal, which everyone seems to agree on. > [@RedFury](#): > > True. But blown offside calls are almost an every match occurrence. Phantom goals? Not so much. Yeah, but that doesn’t mean that the goal should have counted on some metaphysical level. It is kind of weird that England always seems to be involved in phantom goals- though we’re usually on the other side. You could even include the Hand of God goal. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/387 "2012-06-20T22:48:07Z")
Moving on: Czechs vs Portugal. Coin toss? Really all depends which Ronaldo shows-up. As a team, I like the Czechs better, but when you have CR7 on your side, you are really never an underdog. That said, I am taking the Czechs 3-2 in a mad affair. * * * I predict a very tough battle between the Germans & the Greeks on Friday. This match – for good or ill – has a lot more than footie involved. A red card or two, not out of the question. I agree w/ **lisiate** : 2-1 Germany. But painful. Literally. * * * Spain vs France: If Spain come to play (and VDB starts with a legit 4-1-4-1, which is how I think we play best), I don’t see France beating us. That said, if we come out as we did against Croatia (an amazing 4-6), we are there for the taking. That said, yet another 1-0 win by Spain wouldn’t surprise me – or anyone else. * * * England vs Italy. Rooting for England all the way in this one. Just can’t stand Italy’s football – besides the '82 WC, they are a disgrace to the game. That said, England’s going to have to step it up two notches. If anyone knows how to win games without playing football, that’s The Azzurri. Biased prediction: England through 1-0. Or down to PKs. * * * As you can tell, I expect the scoring to go way down in the next round… ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/388 "2012-06-20T22:50:57Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > …You could even include the Hand of God goal. I’ve always _hated_ Maradona after that. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/389 "2012-06-20T22:55:48Z")
I was too young to remember it, but on some level I’ve always sort of liked the “cheat to win” approach. If the Greek squad were at full strength I’d go out on a limb and pick them to beat Germany… but they aren’t. I just don’t see France beating Spain, because they won’t have enough of the ball. I don’t think there’s a real favorite in either of the other two matches, though obviously I’d rather see an England win. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/390 "2012-06-20T23:01:26Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Is there another kind? :dubious: What was the Straight Dope’s motto again? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/391 "2012-06-20T23:13:22Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I was too young to remember it, but on some level I’ve always sort of liked the “cheat to win” approach. Don’t understand that. I honestly _hate_ cheats. I mean if Spain wanted Italy out of the tournament they’d just let in a goal in the last CK – I would have been disgusted if they had though. > [@](#): > > If the Greek squad were at full strength I’d go out on a limb and pick them to beat Germany… but they aren’t. I just don’t see France beating Spain, because they won’t have enough of the ball. I don’t think there’s a real favorite in either of the other two matches, though obviously I’d rather see an England win. Fair assessment, though I don’t think any player on the Greek squad is going easy on Friday. Yes, Germany should go through, but like I said this is a grudge match on more than one level. And again, I am certainly with you on wanting England through. In fact, a Spain/England Final would please me to no end. Not because I think I’d be easy – it certainly wouldn’t. Remember what I told you last WC? You have a legit goalie now in Heart and that makes all the difference. For as good as Spain has done in the past four years, they’d be nowhere w/out Saint Iker. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/392 "2012-06-20T23:17:37Z")
Nitpick: Hart. I do think England matches up well against Spain. Scrappy, will run around and break up all those pretty passing exchanges, and disciplined at the back (though not against Ukraine!) In attacking terms, everyone except the Irish seems to have tried to beat Spain at Spanish football. The Irish had the right idea: hoof it up the pitch and beat them in the air instead, which England should also be able to do. Ireland’s problem was that they just weren’t talented enough to make it work. Hard to beat anyone no matter what your tactics are if you only have 15% of the possession. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/393 "2012-06-20T23:21:13Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > What was the Straight Dope’s motto again? 😃 Methinks I am going to stick to the “it’s taking longer than we thought” part. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/394 "2012-06-20T23:31:03Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Nitpick: Hart. I do think England matches up well against Spain. Scrappy, will run around and break up all those pretty passing exchanges, and disciplined at the back (though not against Ukraine!) > > In attacking terms, everyone except the Irish seems to have tried to beat Spain at Spanish football. The Irish had the right idea: hoof it up the pitch and beat them in the air instead, which England should also be able to do. Ireland’s problem was that they just weren’t talented enough to make it work. Hard to beat anyone no matter what your tactics are if you only have 15% of the possession. Apologies: Joe Hart it is. And yes, that’s basically the right idea; get us when we’re full forward with a lightning counter/long ball. You won’t get many – and you still have Iker to get through – but with players such as Rooney & Welbeck, Walcott, Carroll, and Gerrard to launch them (my favorite mid, outside of Xavi & Iniesta) you have as good a chance as anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/395 "2012-06-20T23:43:55Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > I’m pleased to note that the Official Pukka Pies England Supporters Band have finally learned a new tune. Unfortunately it’s that Seven Nation Army riff that we’re all already sick of hearing after every goal. I used to like this song. > [@hammos1](#): > > 2006 World Cup, when we beat Trinidad & Tobago 2-0 courtesy of some hair-pulling by Crouch and a nice curler from Gerrard. > > “It’s sometimes tricky to get a result, even against the weakest team in the tournament” said the Trinidad manager afterwards. Greatest quote ever. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > And people wonder why it hasn’t really caught on in the US. It kinda has. Not the Big Three (and may never be), but will probably pass hockey soon for the #4 spot (yeah, I know, NASCAR). Or something. Ranking the sports can be kind of weird. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > The concept of a football team as a “franchise” is alien to us and that seems far worse than having a bit of advertising on a shirt. Because teams are that strongly linked with physical location? I get that a “franchise” is such a foreign concept. But I don’t see how it’s a “far worse” concept. If I owned a team that was losing me money in one place, I sure as hell would like to move it to a place where it could succeed. Or is it that the idea that the team could succeed in a different location unreasonable? > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Once you’ve accepted that level of sophistication then we may even allow you to play cricket and rugby. Baby steps though. Stop! I want soccer to be a huge success in the US. Telling people that it will lead to rugby & cricket will derail that. 😉 (Actually, I think I could like rugby better than American football…cricket is still a harder sell). > [@mkecane](#): > > Most great looking goals are probably scored from outside the box. Who wants to watch a youtube video of Wayne Rooney’s Greatest Tap-ins, or Greatest Rebound Goals, or Greatest Deflected Goals? I don’t know. A lot of tap-ins are the result of a great buildup. Or at least one great pass. Same could be said of rebound and deflected goals. > [@Ximenean](#): > > Soccer caters to commercial breaks too. Kick-offs are carefully timed to allow for commercial breaks. Really? Watch some American sports occasionally. The way soccer caters to commercial breaks is in a different universe compared to the way that baseball/football (American)/basketball do. Timing the kickoffs? Really? > [@RedFury](#): > > Is there another kind? :dubious: Of football? Yes. Lots. Pretending that there are no other sports called “football” is kind douchebaggy. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/396 "2012-06-21T00:19:47Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Don’t understand that. I honestly _hate_ cheats. I hate petty cheating of the act-like-you-just-trod-on-a-landmine-when-a-defender-comes-near-you-in-the-box kind, but I do have a certain grudging admiration for pulling off something as audacious as the Hand of God goal. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/397 "2012-06-21T00:21:14Z")
That. Fuck divers, but damn me if I didn’t think Maradona might actually have been God when I saw the goal years later. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/398 "2012-06-21T00:50:54Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > I hate petty cheating of the act-like-you-just-trod-on-a-landmine-when-a-defender-comes-near-you-in-the-box kind, but I do have a certain grudging admiration for pulling off something as audacious as the Hand of God goal. 😛 Agreed. It was so beautifully, wonderfully shameless. Petty cheating is just annoying, but this kind of thing took serious balls. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/399 "2012-06-21T00:54:05Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > …Of football? Yes. Lots. Pretending that there are no other sports called “football” is kind douchebaggy. What I think is “douchebaggy” is calling any sport mainly played with your hands, “football.” Never mind coming-up with a weak-sauced, American-only name such as “soccer” for the game the whole world know as as “football/futbol” > [@Colophon](#): > > I hate petty cheating of the act-like-you-just-trod-on-a-landmine-when-a-defender-comes-near-you-in-the-box kind, but I do have a certain grudging admiration for pulling off something as audacious as the Hand of God goal. 😛 What you call “audacious” I saw live as clearly “cheating.” Semantics? Nope, it was simply cheating as the whole world saw & knows since them – some later than other, admittedly. Some “genius” that Pelusa… > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > That. Fuck divers, but damn me if I didn’t think Maradona might actually have been God when I saw the goal years later. Even though I am an atheist, I have a much better _concept_ of “God” than Maradona scoring with his hand and jumping all over the field as if it was legit. Oh, and I hate divers myself…though I admit we have a few; Busquet comes to mind. God on the pitch? Try Zidane in Glasgow, with the [sublime volley](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaQhF-523As) from just inside the box for Madrid’s 9th CL. One of the best legal goals you are ever going to see for a huge win. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/400 "2012-06-21T01:11:15Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > What I think is “douchebaggy” is calling any sport mainly played with your hands, “football.” Never mind coming-up with a weak-sauced, American-only name such as “soccer” for the game the whole world know as as “football/futbol” > > \ > > God on the pitch? Try Zidane in Glasgow, with the [sublime volley](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaQhF-523As) from just inside the box for Madrid’s 9th CL. One of the best legal goals you are ever going to see for a huge win. But “soccer” isn’t an American-only name for the sport - it’s a contraction of “Association”, and used by the British to distinguish it from Rugby Football and, for that matter, American Football. I guess we don’t use it much, but we did originate it, and Americans have good reasons for using it. You may dislike the word, I guess, but don’t blame the Yanks for it. Good link, though, I wonder if that wasn’t one of the best goals ever scored at Hampden. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883.md?page=21)