# EURO 2012 Poland/Ukraine \[OPEN SPOILERS\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 2, 2012, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883 "2012-06-02T18:19:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/401 "2012-06-21T02:34:48Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > What I think is “douchebaggy” is calling any sport mainly played with your hands, “football.” Never mind coming-up with a weak-sauced, American-only name such as “soccer” for the game the whole world know as as “football/futbol” You’re ignorance is showing. Not that there’s any reason for a European to be knowledgeable about the roots of American football. Nor for a non native English speaker to know where the word “soccer” originates from. It might even be understandable that you don’t quite get the the whole world doesn’t call it “football/futbol”. But to parade that ignorance to support some lame form of Euro-snobbery? Priceless. Keep going, please. If your sauce was any weaker, it would be pure water. ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/402 "2012-06-21T03:37:28Z")
Sigh… Can we ever have a thread about football that does not derail into whether it should be properly called that, into whether it will or will not catch on in the US, and why, into whether it has the right set of rules or whether some of the rules and conventions associated are stupid or not? I guess not. Still, as the OP of this thread on the European Football Championship 2012, for whatever that is worth, let me ask all of you who are debating those issues and not the tournament, pretty please, with sugar on top, take it somewhere else. I absolutely did not start this thread to have it hijacked by people interested in arguing about whether the game as such has any merits or whether it has the right name. Thank you, that will be all. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/403 "2012-06-21T04:23:08Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > Sigh… > > Can we ever have a thread about football that does not derail into whether it should be properly called that?.. Post 381 has to be my most inherently ironic post ever. Anyway, the only objective way to determine what “real” football is would be to assess the actual balls being played. Before we begin, let’s not forget that the “foot” part of the word is a description of the ball, not what’s being done to it. Otherwise one of the balls in question would be called a “kickball”, right? 2 questions: which of the balls is about the length of an adult human foot? And which ball is closest to 12 inches in length? So… Which one is the football? > [@](#): > > Thank you, that will be all. Yes..yes it will. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/404 "2012-06-21T04:33:20Z")
> [@](#): > > Still, as the OP of this thread on the European Football Championship 2012, for whatever that is worth, let me ask all of you who are debating those issues and not the tournament, pretty please, with sugar on top, take it somewhere else. I absolutely did not start this thread to have it hijacked by people interested in arguing about whether the game as such has any merits or whether it has the right name. > > Thank you, that will be all. I honestly didn’t read this part of your post… I just read the first line and the ending. Sorry for my rudeness. But it was an off day today, so perhaps you can forgive me. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/405 "2012-06-21T06:53:50Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > What you call “audacious” I saw live as clearly “cheating.” Semantics? Nope, it was simply cheating as the whole world saw & knows since them – some later than other, admittedly. Some “genius” that Pelusa… Personally I’m tired of the admiration and acceptance for things like this. He shouldn’t be able to look back on that as a proud moment as he does. On a smaller scale you’re always hearing commentators justifying deliberate fouling and similar behaviour. “Professional foul” - really? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/406 "2012-06-21T07:46:05Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > Because teams are that strongly linked with physical location? I get that a “franchise” is such a foreign concept. But I don’t see how it’s a “far worse” concept. If I owned a team that was losing me money in one place, I sure as hell would like to move it to a place where it could succeed. Or is it that the idea that the team could succeed in a different location unreasonable? Yes, the location shift would be seen as unforgivable. No way…_no way_ could a major team be relocated to another city and still remain as recognisably the same entity (and certainly wouldn’t keep it’s position in a league). And no way would they attract a large audience by doing so as every city has one or two major teams already with rather tribal and fanatical following. Even fairly minor changes to locations within the same area or colours or nicknames or stadium names are greeted with apoplexy. I’m not saying it is “far worse” concept in any objective sense, merely that the fans would consider it as such. One huge reason for this is that there is no bar to anyone or anyplace creating a team out of thin air, funding it, being successful, attracting fans and rising to the highest level. Our league structure of relegation and promotion means a “franchise” concept is not needed. Success is open to anyone but it has to be earned not bought. > [@](#): > > Stop! I want soccer to be a huge success in the US. Telling people that it will lead to rugby & cricket will derail that. 😉 (Actually, I think I could like rugby better than American football…cricket is still a harder sell). It was tongue in cheek of course but I think there is still room in a country as diverse as America for all three to gain a foothold. I don’t think they’ll supplant the big three any time soon but with an ever-changing demographic they may hit enough popularity to have a TV presence and to be played within schools. That can only be a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/407 "2012-06-21T07:53:27Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > Personally I’m tired of the admiration and acceptance for things like this. He shouldn’t be able to look back on that as a proud moment as he does. On a smaller scale you’re always hearing commentators justifying deliberate fouling and similar behaviour. “Professional foul” - really? Agreed, I despise cheating in sport, Maradona was a great footballer but a dreadful human being and for all his skill I’d never hold him up as a role model for any young person going into football. Personally I would love to see diving and other simulation retrospectively punished, and hard! 3 match ban minimums and points deductions for repeat offenders. When any manager complains about a referee being fooled by simulation from the other team I would love the interviewer call “bullshit” on it, and ask him directly what he does to ensure that his team never do it as well. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/408 "2012-06-21T13:19:56Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > You’re ignorance is showing. Not that there’s any reason for a European to be knowledgeable about the roots of American football. Nor for a non native English speaker to know where the word “soccer” originates from. It might even be understandable that you don’t quite get the the whole world doesn’t call it “football/futbol”. But to parade that ignorance to support some lame form of Euro-snobbery? Priceless. Keep going, please. If your sauce was any weaker, it would be pure water. Whatever, dude. I’ll respect the OP’s wishes and let John Cleese respond instead: [**John Cleese rants - Soccer vs Football**](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sD_8prYOxo) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/409 "2012-06-21T14:06:28Z")
I’m not sure what it means when the OP asks everyone to take the hijack elsewhere and four of the next six posts ignore the request. > [@RedFury](#): > > Even though I am an atheist, I have a much better _concept_ of “God” than Maradona scoring with his hand and jumping all over the field as if it was legit. Ah, but the _reason_ he did that is that he knew the ref was watching and thought he wouldn’t give the goal unless he acted normal. There was an interview with him where he mentioned that he was angry at his teammates for not celebrating with him, because he thought the referee might notice _their_ reaction. > [@Bozuit](#): > > Personally I’m tired of the admiration and acceptance for things like this. He shouldn’t be able to look back on that as a proud moment as he does. On a smaller scale you’re always hearing commentators justifying deliberate fouling and similar behaviour. “Professional foul” - really? Most fouling is, sort of by definition, within the rules of the game. It’s not golf. If a defender commits a handball to keep a shot out of the goal in the last minute, he’s going to be sent off, but nobody would ever say he shouldn’t do it. ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/410 "2012-06-21T14:49:44Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > I honestly didn’t read this part of your post… I just read the first line and the ending. Sorry for my rudeness. But it was an off day today, so perhaps you can forgive me. I’ll forgive, but I won’t forget > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I’m not sure what it means when the OP asks everyone to take the hijack elsewhere and four of the next six posts ignore the request. Neither do I. I realize a hijack free thread is a bit of an impossibility, so I guess I’m just trying to contain it. > [@](#): > > Most fouling is, sort of by definition, within the rules of the game. It’s not golf. If a defender commits a handball to keep a shot out of the goal in the last minute, he’s going to be sent off, but nobody would ever say he shouldn’t do it. I agree with you that people shouldn’t argue that, but that’s not how a lot of people reacted to Suarez’s handball against Ghana in 2010. ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/411 "2012-06-21T18:54:26Z")
First day of quarter finals. Here’s hoping the Czechs beat the Portuguese! Do toho! ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/412 "2012-06-21T18:59:06Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Most fouling is, sort of by definition, within the rules of the game. It’s not golf. If a defender commits a handball to keep a shot out of the goal in the last minute, he’s going to be sent off, but nobody would ever say he shouldn’t do it. I would. And this exactly the attitude I don’t like - that it’s just a cost/benefit trade off with no thought for sporting conduct. Anyway, so far I’m really enjoying watching the Czech Republic play. I expect Portugal will get a couple of goals because of some mistakes but overall I don’t see the Czechs being significantly outplayed. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/413 "2012-06-21T19:34:21Z")
Portugal ramping it up now though…oooooooooooo! what an effort from Ronaldo, that would’ve been a corker. Half time now though, Portugal will be miffed that they aren’t ahead. they were only dominant for the last 10 minutes though. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/414 "2012-06-21T20:34:42Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > I agree with you that people shouldn’t argue that, but that’s not how a lot of people reacted to Suarez’s handball against Ghana in 2010. Same example I was going to give. I recall it being pretty split between douchebag vs hero. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/415 "2012-06-21T20:42:48Z")
Ugh. Cannot stand watching CR celebrate. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/416 "2012-06-21T22:21:22Z")
“CR7” you mean 😛 ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/417 "2012-06-21T22:25:35Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > …Anyway, so far I’m really enjoying watching the Czech Republic play. I expect Portugal will get a couple of goals because of some mistakes but overall I don’t see the Czechs being significantly outplayed. So I thought for the first 35 minutes or so. After that, it should, could have been a massacre. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/418 "2012-06-22T13:48:13Z")
My DVR spaced out and didn’t record the match. That’s okay, though, because I would have been very upset to watch Portugal for 90 minutes and not get to see Ronaldo cry at the end. The statistics were astonishingly lopsided. How did the Czechs only manage _two_ shots? ---
**Author:** ![mkecane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@mkecane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mkecane)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/419 "2012-06-22T14:08:24Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > My DVR spaced out and didn’t record the match. That’s okay, though, because I would have been very upset to watch Portugal for 90 minutes and not get to see Ronaldo cry at the end. > > The statistics were astonishingly lopsided. How did the Czechs only manage _two_ shots? The second half was just all Portugal. In the middle of the 2nd, they showed the shots and the Czechs had 2, but I figured they’d up that a good bit once they were down a goal. Instead, Portugal almost put on a clinic of possession for the last 10 minutes. Portugal looked stagnant in most of the 1st half, but soon after Postiga went out and Almieda came in, they looked much better. I’m not sure how much of that was due to personnel change and how much of it was just Portugal taking the initiative. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883/420 "2012-06-22T14:45:11Z")
Thanks. IMHO, Postiga has looked pretty wooden throughout the tournament, so it wouldn’t surprise me if it was the former. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euro-2012-poland-ukraine-open-spoilers/623883.md?page=22)