# Europa Universalis IV pre-order **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 5, 2013, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europa-universalis-iv-pre-order/660217 "2013-06-05T16:28:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europa-universalis-iv-pre-order/660217/1 "2013-06-05T16:28:12Z")
From the same developers as Crusader Kings II. If you’ve conquered Europe in the Middle Ages, have a try at conquering the whole world in the Age of Exploration. Europa Universalis IV is now available for pre-order. If you own the previous version on Steam, you’ll also get a 10% discount. Pre-order trailer: [E3 2013 Europa Universalis IV - Pre-Order Trailer - YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fz7e4sDl4Rk) Casus Belli, the musical: [Europa Universalis IV - The Musical: Casus Belli - YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUZvwxucXbw) **quill18** has an in-depth preview of the game as well as its differences from the previous version: https://www.youtube.com/embed/yvheg4Bg4wY?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque&list=SPs3acGYgI1-tHGlPhfp32gDYzyG2aMD8m [link to first video in playlist] It looks like the team has learned a lot from Crusader Kings II. The interface looks much cleaner and less cluttered. The revamped trade system looks especially interesting. I anticipate there being trade wars or even actual wars for control of critical trade nodes. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europa-universalis-iv-pre-order/660217/2 "2013-06-05T16:46:23Z")
The last Europa Universalis game simply lost me. I felt so lost by the learning curve. Crusader Kings has a pretty steep one, and I think there’s a ton I still need to figure out in it, but I found some more resources to help quickly. I’m sure I’ll dip my toe back in down the road at some time. ---
**Author:** ![Palooka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/palooka/32/2902_2.png) [@Palooka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palooka)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europa-universalis-iv-pre-order/660217/3 "2013-06-05T17:01:21Z")
It’s not just the learning curve either. I feel like there isn’t much depth to it either. Maybe that’s just because I haven’t played it well enough to see it though. It’s fun going through and having stories develop, but I dunno if that’s something to pre-order for or wait for a Steam sale for. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europa-universalis-iv-pre-order/660217/4 "2013-06-05T17:16:01Z")
I say this as a fan of Paradox: Do not preorder their games. Do not buy them on Day 1. Do not buy them in the first month. Sometimes, do not buy them in the first year. They’re a great company, but they tend to release utter dogs and patch them later. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europa-universalis-iv-pre-order/660217/5 "2013-06-05T17:34:40Z")
Crusader Kings II was actually playable when first released, with a working tutorial no less. Paradox is probably throwing as many if not more resources at developing EUIV, their flagship product. On other other hand, if experience with CKII is any indication, you can probably get EUIV with all the DLC (and you know those are coming) at heavily discounted rates in the next year or so. I couldn’t grasp EUIII when I first tried it. After some time with CKII however, I went back to EUIII and found it, if anything, easier to run than CKII. The effects of changing the sliders and such are less immediate, since you’re running a nation rather than a dynasty. Also the whole budget thing with the mint & inflation and monthly & yearly cashflow was rather counter-intuitive. EUIV will be getting rid of all that, which should make for a better game experience. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europa-universalis-iv-pre-order/660217/6 "2013-06-05T18:31:56Z")
There’s a [long series of developer diaries](http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?629770-Europa-Universalis-IV-Development-Diaries-Archive) that do a good job of explaining how EU4 will be different than EU3 and other design decisions. The changes in [trade](http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?643892-Europa-Universalis-IV-Developer-Diary-9-It-s-a-rich-man-s-world) and [income](http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?634853-Europa-Universalis-IV-Developer-diary-4-Your-Economy-is-about-to-change) are enough for me to want EU4. Plus, I think the new [ruler mechanics](http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?636815-Europa-Universalis-IV-Developer-diary-5-The-Return-of-the-Kings) will be good. In short, trade simulates a flow of wealth across provinces that can be tapped into. Countries can manipulate that flow. Income will be on a per-month basis, instead of the complicated monthly vs yearly mess they had before. Rulers will accumulate points in admin, diplo and military categories that you spend to take admin, diplo or military actions. I typically buy Paradox games as early as possible, simply because I like their games and game support and I want to support the company. But they do have a history of releasing buggy games. (Crusader Kings 2 is a recent counter-example.) The also have a history of putting in years more of development work on already released games and giving it away free to game owners. So I don’t think it’s unwarranted to wait a year after release to buy a game from them, but don’t let it slip off your radar. ---
**Author:** ![President\_Johnny\_Gentle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@President\_Johnny\_Gentle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/President_Johnny_Gentle)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europa-universalis-iv-pre-order/660217/7 "2013-06-05T20:38:51Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > I typically buy Paradox games as early as possible, simply because I like their games and game support and I want to support the company. But they do have a history of releasing buggy games. (Crusader Kings 2 is a recent counter-example.) The also have a history of putting in years more of development work on already released games and giving it away free to game owners. So I don’t think it’s unwarranted to wait a year after release to buy a game from them, but don’t let it slip off your radar. For what it’s worth, they declared EU essentially complete back in January or so, and everything since then has been testing. They’re doing a fairly extensive two month closed beta before the release. They seem to have applied their CK2 experience to the development here. Everything has been enough to convince me to preorder, which is something I’ve never done before for a Paradox game. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europa-universalis-iv-pre-order/660217/8 "2013-06-06T14:17:52Z")
This is interesting: Each month has a different pre-order bonus associated with it: > **[Europa Universalis IV - Paradox Interactive](https://www.paradoxinteractive.com/games/europa-universalis-iv/about)** > > Paradox Interactive is a world leading PC games publisher known for games such as Cities: Skylines, Europa Universalis and Crusader Kings. But if you pre-order early, you’ll get the bonuses for subsequent months. I’m sure that these are cosmetic add-ons that don’t affect gameplay, but it’s seriously tempting to pre-order especially given what they’ve shown of the development of the core game. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europa-universalis-iv-pre-order/660217/9 "2013-06-06T15:46:13Z")
How long does it usually take before paradox games start getting their extreme sales like I got for ck2? ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europa-universalis-iv-pre-order/660217/10 "2013-06-06T16:19:51Z")
Paradox tends to have sales with the release of major DLC. The sale includes the base game and all DLC except for the newly-released content. For CKII, this has been every three months or so. Obviously, the longer you wait the bigger the bang for your buck. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europa-universalis-iv-pre-order/660217/11 "2013-08-01T17:48:11Z")
They’ve announced the final pre-order bonus, a [save converter from CK2 to EU4](http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/content.php?1540-Crusader-Kings-II-Save-Converter-Announced-for-Europa-Universalis-IV). Very cool! ---
**Author:** ![President\_Johnny\_Gentle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@President\_Johnny\_Gentle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/President_Johnny_Gentle)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europa-universalis-iv-pre-order/660217/12 "2013-08-01T18:39:24Z")
As a result of pre-order bonuses, I currently have one Steam code for EU3 Chronicles (the previous game plus all expansions) and will have one for CK2 vanilla in two weeks time. I own both games already, so they’re of no use for me. If somebody wants one or both, PM me. Priority will be given to non-August join dates. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europa-universalis-iv-pre-order/660217/13 "2013-08-02T17:02:08Z")
They’ve released some documentation about the game, if you’re curious or undecided. [EU4 manual (pdf)](http://cdn2.steampowered.com/Manuals/236850/EuropaUniversalisIV_Manual.pdf) [EU3 vs EU4 differences (thread that links to pdf)](http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?705323-EU3-vs-EU-4-summary) ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europa-universalis-iv-pre-order/660217/14 "2013-08-02T17:38:47Z")
Here’s a Let’s Play preview series, by quill18 playing as England: https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZlcscBCW4DQ?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque&list=SPs3acGYgI1-vx6u5K0CTYajCyvL3oDzDg ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2013, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europa-universalis-iv-pre-order/660217/15 "2013-08-05T04:46:47Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > I say this as a fan of Paradox: > > Do not preorder their games. Do not buy them on Day 1. Do not buy them in the first month. Sometimes, do not buy them in the first year. They’re a great company, but they tend to release utter dogs and patch them later. This was not true of their last 3 games: Crusader Kings 2 (18 months ago), Sengoku or March of the Eagles. I’m pretty sure it won’t be true of EU4 either. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2013, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europa-universalis-iv-pre-order/660217/16 "2013-08-05T04:49:53Z")
> [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > The last Europa Universalis game simply lost me. I felt so lost by the learning curve. Crusader Kings has a pretty steep one, and I think there’s a ton I still need to figure out in it, but I found some more resources to help quickly. > > I’m sure I’ll dip my toe back in down the road at some time. If it’s any encouragement, [they have paid a lot of attention to the tutorials this time](http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?705084-Europa-Universalis-IV-Developer-diary-44-Newbie-Friendly). > [@](#): > > It has a basic part, an advanced part and then a small tutorial campaign to really get playing. There’s also an in-game helpful hints feature. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2013, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europa-universalis-iv-pre-order/660217/17 "2013-08-05T04:57:05Z")
Is it confirmed/denied if it is always online like the SimCity debacle? ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2013, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europa-universalis-iv-pre-order/660217/18 "2013-08-05T05:30:22Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Is it confirmed/denied if it is always online like the SimCity debacle? Not sure where this suspicion may have arisen … Paradox games never require you to be online to play solo, in fact they don’t even require the Steam client to be running (except of course to install, patch, and play MP). ---
**Author:** ![President\_Johnny\_Gentle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@President\_Johnny\_Gentle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/President_Johnny_Gentle)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2013, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europa-universalis-iv-pre-order/660217/19 "2013-08-05T06:23:53Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Is it confirmed/denied if it is always online like the SimCity debacle? Completely denied. Steam is required, but only, as mentioned, to install, update, or play MP. Once installed, it is even possible to copy the installation files to another directory and run that. Many players do this to continue running an old version (e.g., when a new version breaks a mod). ---
**Author:** ![President\_Johnny\_Gentle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@President\_Johnny\_Gentle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/President_Johnny_Gentle)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2013, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europa-universalis-iv-pre-order/660217/20 "2013-08-08T16:30:29Z")
The demo is out, for those of you interested. A description of what is included is at the [Paradox forums](http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?706528-Europa-Universalis-IV-Demo-description&). I’m downloading now and looking forward to it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europa-universalis-iv-pre-order/660217.md?page=2)