# Europe \<3 free speech. Unless you say something they don't like. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 20, 2006, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-3-free-speech-unless-you-say-something-they-dont-like/345350 "2006-02-20T18:54:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2006, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-3-free-speech-unless-you-say-something-they-dont-like/345350/61 "2006-02-21T15:33:39Z")
> [@Freddy the Pig](#): > > Our Holocaust deniers are way cooler than your child pornographers. Neener, neener, neener. It’s the snappy uniforms and disciplined marching style. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2006, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-3-free-speech-unless-you-say-something-they-dont-like/345350/62 "2006-02-21T15:56:36Z")
> [@Freddy the Pig](#): > > Our Holocaust deniers are way cooler than your child pornographers. Neener, neener, neener. Well if Jake and Elwood thought me anything it was to hate Illinois Nazis 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2006, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-3-free-speech-unless-you-say-something-they-dont-like/345350/63 "2006-02-21T16:06:55Z")
> [@bouv](#): > > **The Gaspode** : > Find me someone who as actually gone to jail in recent years for making or showing porn. Sure: [U.S. vs. Thomas](http://www.tomwbell.com/NetLaw/Ch04/Thomas.html) - 30 and 37 months of jail respectively. [DoJ on obscenity laws](http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/ceos/obscenity.html): > [@](#): > > Although material is not to be condemned merely because it contains passages or sequences that describe or depict sexual activity, the courts have consistently held that the right to free expression does not extend to material which is obscene. And what is obscene? Well, it’s a matter of interpretation. > [@DoJ](#): > > Whether the average person would find that the work, taken as a whole and applying contemporary community standards, appeals to the prurient interest Maybe wacking off to something makes it a prurient interest, meaning all porn could be seen as obscene. I doubt that anyone would disagree that what mainstream porn shows and gets away with clearly is different now, as compared to 20 or 30 years ago. Gonzalez might just be acting the politician, but he _is_ attorney general and clearly, his quote is meant to say that he wants to protect the public from porn. ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2006, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-3-free-speech-unless-you-say-something-they-dont-like/345350/64 "2006-02-21T16:39:21Z")
> [@kellner](#): > > Who said that? It isn’t and you can’t - and we like it that way. I don’t like it that way. I think it’s an appalling law, and I can’t wait until some EU body strikes it down. It’s only there as some bizarre attempt for Germany and Australia to claim the anti-anti-semitic moral high ground. Nothing should be prohibited from open debate. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2006, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-3-free-speech-unless-you-say-something-they-dont-like/345350/65 "2006-02-21T18:23:21Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > The FCC can fine a broadcaster and if the broadcaster refuses to pay the fine it will have its license revoked. Revocation of said license would be financial ruin for the company in question. > > The FCC doesn’t have the power to arrest people. Okay, so suppose they simply continue broadcasting without a license? Sorry, but the power of the federal government is backed up by force at some point. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2006, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-3-free-speech-unless-you-say-something-they-dont-like/345350/66 "2006-02-21T19:07:19Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Okay, so suppose they simply continue broadcasting without a license? > > Sorry, but the power of the federal government is backed up by force at some point. Same thing that happens to you if you drive without a license. Doesn’t mean that you don’t have the right to freely travel the country. Just if you decide to take advantage of the public roads (or airwaves) when using your rights, you have to follow the rules. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2006, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-3-free-speech-unless-you-say-something-they-dont-like/345350/67 "2006-02-21T21:53:52Z")
> [@istara](#): > > I don’t like it that way. I think it’s an appalling law, and I can’t wait until some EU body strikes it down. You would. > [@](#): > > \*It’s only there as some bizarre attempt for Germany and Australia to claim the anti-anti-semitic moral high ground. > > Nothing should be prohibited from open debate.\* Hey, I’m anti anti-semitic [no moral high ground. Just common sense] but I agree with you that Irving can say whatever the hell he wants. There’s nothing to debate about it, though. Irving might as well deny there’s such a thing as a car. Just as stupid, but not debatable. . ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2006, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-3-free-speech-unless-you-say-something-they-dont-like/345350/68 "2006-02-21T22:12:43Z")
> [@istara](#): > > I think it’s an appalling law, and I can’t wait until some EU body strikes it down. > > It’s only there as some bizarre attempt for Germany and Australia to claim the anti-anti-semitic moral high ground. Not sure why this would qualify as “bizarre”, but in any case this wasn’t the central purpose for such legislation. These laws were passed at a time when the continent had recently been ravaged by the Second World War, and were an attempt to prevent any resurgence of Nazism (promotion of ethnic hatred is a major tool of neo-Nazis). The idea was that Nazism was really really bad for everybody, not just Jews. Bigotry is certainly still alive and Fascism may look less horrible given the passage of time, but the value of such laws has to be weighed against the aspects of suppressing free speech and the likelihood of creating “martyrs” like Irving. I think their time is past. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-3-free-speech-unless-you-say-something-they-dont-like/345350.md?page=3)