# Europe and the furor over cartoons **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 6, 2006, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-and-the-furor-over-cartoons/343265 "2006-02-06T18:08:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-and-the-furor-over-cartoons/343265/21 "2006-02-06T22:43:17Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > Embassies sacred? The British embassy wasn’t that sacred in Dublin after Bloody Sunday. A large group of Irish Catholic civilian protestors burnt it down in protest. Was the sky falling down then too? I for one bow down to our new Irish Catholic overlords. Potato(e) whiskey anyone? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-and-the-furor-over-cartoons/343265/22 "2006-02-06T22:52:30Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > Embassies sacred? The British embassy wasn’t that sacred in Dublin after Bloody Sunday. A large group of Irish Catholic civilian protestors burnt it down in protest. Was the sky falling down then too? How many embassies were attacked that day? More than one? ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-and-the-furor-over-cartoons/343265/23 "2006-02-06T23:13:28Z")
There was only one embassy. There was an old RAF club just off Harcourt Street also burnt down and the crowd that moved on the Dail(Our House of Parliament) was stopped by a very large contingent of police and army blockades. If the British had have had more official buildings in Dublin they would have been at risk as well. ---
**Author:** ![David\_God\_of\_Frogs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David\_God\_of\_Frogs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_God_of_Frogs)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-and-the-furor-over-cartoons/343265/24 "2006-02-06T23:19:11Z")
> [@gigobuster](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Not to be outdone, a Belgian-Dutch Islamic political organization, the Arab European League has started posting cartoons that they think will be as offensive as possible to the Danish. > > > > … > > > > An article in the Jerusalem Post cites a cartoon from the AEL site which has gotten the most attention; it features Holocaust victim Anne Frank in bed with Adolf Hitler after having sex, Hitler says, “Write this one in your diary, Anne.” That’s not the worst of it. > [@](#): > > [Iran paper plans Holocaust cartoons](http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/FCE073DD-7F1B-4714-95F0-DD1F354F1D9A.htm) > > Iran’s largest selling newspaper has announced it is holding a contest on cartoons of the Holocaust in response to the publishing in European papers of caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad. > > “It will be an international cartoon contest about the Holocaust,” Farid Mortazavi, the graphics editor for Hamshahri newspaper, which is published by Tehran’s conservative-run municipality, said on Monday. > > He said the plan was to turn the tables on the assertion that newspapers can print offensive material in the name of freedom of expression. > > “The Western papers printed these sacrilegious cartoons on the pretext of freedom of expression, so let’s see if they mean what they say and also print these Holocaust cartoons,” he asserted. > > … > > Mortazavi said Tuesday’s edition of the paper will invite cartoonists to enter the competition, with “private individuals” offering gold coins to the best 12 artists - the same number of cartoons that appeared in the conservative Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-and-the-furor-over-cartoons/343265/25 "2006-02-06T23:20:43Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > I for one bow down to our new Irish Catholic overlords. About bloody time as well 😃 ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-and-the-furor-over-cartoons/343265/26 "2006-02-06T23:34:22Z")
> [@MLS](#): > > This is the first time I’ve seen the cartoons that people are being offended by. Question: Where in the cartoons does it say these are depictions specifically of Mohammed? As opposed to just any random guy in a turban? AFAIK, the headlines specifically said that these were cartoons of Mohammed, since it was a commission from the newspaper to do just that - in response to the problem a children’s book publisher had had in getting an artist to depict Mohammed in a children’s book about Islam (since the depiction of Mohammed is necessarily blasphemous to the religion it was attempting to portray. Kind of like producing “The History of Judaism, free ham sandwich enclosed!”) ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-and-the-furor-over-cartoons/343265/27 "2006-02-06T23:45:54Z")
> [@](#): > > Iran’s largest selling newspaper has announced it is holding a contest on cartoons of the Holocaust in response to the publishing in European papers of caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad. Let me just jump in here to establish my copyright of the phrase “The War Against Cartoons”. Oh, wait, now it belongs to the _Reader_. Dang. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-and-the-furor-over-cartoons/343265/28 "2006-02-06T23:57:44Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Let me just jump in here to establish my copyright of the phrase “The War Against Cartoons”. > > Oh, wait, now it belongs to the _Reader_. Dang. I really hate all this cartoon violence! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-and-the-furor-over-cartoons/343265/29 "2006-02-07T00:33:35Z")
> [@](#): > > _Iran’s largest selling newspaper has announced it is holding a contest on cartoons of the Holocaust in response to the publishing in European papers of caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad._ That’s right, don’t forget the Jews. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-and-the-furor-over-cartoons/343265/30 "2006-02-07T01:15:38Z")
> [@](#): > > Not to be outdone, a Belgian-Dutch Islamic political organization, the Arab European League has started posting cartoons that they think will be as offensive as possible to the Danish. > > … > > An article in the Jerusalem Post cites a cartoon from the AEL site which has gotten the most attention; it features Holocaust victim Anne Frank in bed with Adolf Hitler after having sex, Hitler says, “Write this one in your diary, Anne.” Well I guess Albert Brooks can stop looking. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-and-the-furor-over-cartoons/343265/31 "2006-02-07T06:40:20Z")
> [@Orbifold](#): > > Kinda setting the bar low, aren’t you? “At least we’re not worse than a violent irrational fundamentalist mob!” Over the years I’ve heard a lot of Europeans talk about how racist, intolerant, and violent Americans are. Some of those “irrational fundamentalist” you’re talking about include citizens, residents, or"guest" of the the Dutch at this time. In other parts of Europe we’ve had violence against Turkish immigrants in Germany and of course the riots in France very recently. France is rather xenophobic when it comes to their language, they’ve passed laws aimed at Muslims to integrate them in French society (yeah, they don’t specifically mention Muslims but they weren’t passed to prevent someone from wearing a cross), and one Dutch lawmaker even wanted to ban the burqua even though only a handful of women wear them in the Netherlands. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-and-the-furor-over-cartoons/343265/32 "2006-02-07T07:13:11Z")
Retaliating with insult cartoons? How childish! Grow _up_, brats. ---
**Author:** ![rippingtons\_fan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rippingtons_fan/32/11767_2.png) [@rippingtons\_fan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rippingtons_fan)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-and-the-furor-over-cartoons/343265/33 "2006-02-07T07:29:33Z")
Is it Europe’s turn to have their flags burned, to have their embassies trashed and citizens put in mortal danger? It seems that the Islamic world not only wants to punish nations of the western world for that Danish newspaper’s mistake, but they wish to hold the west to an Islamic standard whereby non-Islamic nations can be punished even for a perceived slight against Islam. They have their pretext for Jihad. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-and-the-furor-over-cartoons/343265/34 "2006-02-07T07:39:46Z")
> [@rippingtons\_fan](#): > > Is it Europe’s turn to have their flags burned, to have their embassies trashed and citizens put in mortal danger? It seems that the Islamic world not only wants to punish nations of the western world for that Danish newspaper’s mistake, but they wish to hold the west to an Islamic standard whereby non-Islamic nations can be punished even for a perceived slight against Islam. They have their pretext for Jihad. We should not forget that Denmark is one of the few remaining “coalition of the willing” partners of the USA in Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-and-the-furor-over-cartoons/343265/35 "2006-02-07T09:27:08Z")
This might be interesting: [http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,399263,00.html](http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,399263,00.html) SPIEGEL: Was apologizing for the cartoons the wrong thing to do? Hirsi Ali: Once again, the West pursued the principle of turning first one cheek, then the other. In fact, it’s already a tradition. In 1980, privately owned British broadcaster ITV aired a documentary about the stoning of a Saudi Arabian princess who had allegedly committed adultery. The government in Riyadh intervened and the British government issued an apology. We saw the same kowtowing response in 1987 when (Dutch comedian) Rudi Carrell derided (Iranian revolutionary leader) Ayatollah Khomeini in a comedy skit (that was aired on German television). In 2000, a play about the youngest wife of the Prophet Mohammed, titled “Aisha,” was cancelled before it ever opened in Rotterdam. Then there was the van Gogh murder and now the cartoons. We are constantly apologizing, and we don’t notice how much abuse we’re taking. Meanwhile, the other side doesn’t give an inch. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-and-the-furor-over-cartoons/343265/36 "2006-02-07T13:42:31Z")
I’m a bit confused about the status of depictions of Mohammed in the Muslim world. I’ve read stories and columns which state that only the most extreme sects regard any pictures of the prophet as blasphemous, while most sects think pictures are okay. Here’s an [example:](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Commentary/com-2_7_06_JKE.html) > [@](#): > > Extreme Muslim sects, such as the Wahhabis of Saudi Arabia, regard any depiction of Mohammed as blasphemy. (The Koran prohibits only “idolatry,” and throughout the last millenium Muslim artists have painted likenesses of the Prophet.) . Yet I keep running into statements like[this](http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060207/ts_nm/religion_cartoons_dc) > [@](#): > > Depicting the Prophet is prohibited by Islam but moderate Muslims, while condemning the cartoons, have expressed fears radicals are hijacking the affair which has developed into a clash over press freedom and religious respect. . Does anyone here know what is true? Is this similar to the varying stances taken by Christian sects concerning “graven images?” ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-and-the-furor-over-cartoons/343265/37 "2006-02-07T14:19:59Z")
I thought yesterdays headline on NPR was especially telling: **Muslims, Angry Over Violent Cartoon of Mohammed, Burn Danish Consulate** ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-and-the-furor-over-cartoons/343265/38 "2006-02-07T14:40:51Z")
From the BBC yesterday: “They want to test our feelings,” protester Mawli Abdul Qahar Abu Israra told the BBC. “They want to know whether Muslims are extremists or not. Death to them and to their newspapers,” he said. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-and-the-furor-over-cartoons/343265/39 "2006-02-07T16:40:15Z")
Hahahahaha **asterion** 🙂 **Crotalus** , I’m not exactly sure where they get the notion that it is forbidden to picture Moe. Lots of muslims have made portraits of him through the ages: [http://www.zombietime.com/mohammed\_image\_archive/](http://www.zombietime.com/mohammed_image_archive/) ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-and-the-furor-over-cartoons/343265/40 "2006-02-07T16:52:11Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I don’t recall this level of violence by the muslim community when we invaded either Afghanistan or Iraq. I certainly don’t recall US embassies being burned out and such. There was a huge uproar at the time. It only seems insignificant in retrospect. I think the ‘Koran-in-the-toilet’ uproar was bigger then the present one yet. We’ll get a better sense of perspective after it passes. > [@xtisme](#): > > So, for debate: Does this incident show us something about the underlieing tensions that the Islamic community (or at least a vocal part of it) has against Europe? Fact is, after 9-11, all the action was in Europe. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-and-the-furor-over-cartoons/343265.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-and-the-furor-over-cartoons/343265.md?page=3)