# Europe is a cool place to visit, right? (donation request) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 17, 2015, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-a-cool-place-to-visit-right-donation-request/715241 "2015-03-17T22:52:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-a-cool-place-to-visit-right-donation-request/715241/41 "2015-03-26T03:14:11Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > No, that’s the normal price for that trip. Any American can sign up with EF Tours and take the same trip for the same money. (I may be wrong, you may have to be a high school student or traveling with one, but that’s the price of a trip with them.) > > [www.eftours.com](http://www.eftours.com) My daughter and I went on one last year to the British Isles. It was more than that with airfare from the Midwest, but not much. You do end up paying for a lot on your own - lots of add ons as you go - and its understandably a cheap student trip (hostels and hotels that have seen better days, meals that were decent, but not great, nor a lot of choice, and generally you were on your own for lunch). A lot more looking at scenery than paying admission (although some admission was covered and you had plenty of time in cities to go off by yourself and - well, pay admission - we did the Tower of London on our own). But all in all, a good value. ---
**Author:** ![fisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@fisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fisha)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-a-cool-place-to-visit-right-donation-request/715241/42 "2015-03-26T11:10:29Z")
Last year one of my daughters and I went to Italy for ten days (Rome, Naples, Sorrento) for a graduation present, and the total was $3,200 for everything, including airfare from MSP. Granted, it’s much easier and less expensive to move two people around than twenty, but whenever I see those high school trips, I think, “what a rip off.” Plus it was good to spend time together before she went off to college, and started her own life. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-a-cool-place-to-visit-right-donation-request/715241/43 "2015-03-26T11:12:16Z")
**misstee** , I have a question about your request to fund your daughter’s EF tour. In the ATMB thread discussing this request, a poster who claims to have been an EF chaperone said that [all tours need to be paid in full months in advance](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18234872&postcount=10). If this is true, and your daughter’s tour is booked for June 2015, then it has already been completely paid for. Could you confirm whether or not the tour is booked for 2015, and whether it’s already been paid in full? If it has, why do you need our donations? And what would be the consequences of this funding drive failing to reach the $4000 target? Would Emily get to go on the trip anyway, or would you cancel the booking and get a full or partial refund? ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-a-cool-place-to-visit-right-donation-request/715241/44 "2015-03-26T20:07:37Z")
> [@misstee](#): > > The trip: June 6- June 22 > > Fly out of Des Moines to Munich, Germany spend two and a half days in Germany with visits to Frauenkirche, Neues Rathaus, Hofbrauhaus, Olympic Stadium, Residenz, Marienplatz, and Dachau. > > Next they will travel to Venice; while they are there the students will tour St. Mark’s Square, Grand Canal, visit Doge’s Palace and view a glass blowing demonstration. > > After Venice, Emily will travel to Rome where there are so many things to do – including taking a guided tour of Vatican City, visiting the Sistine Chapel and St. Peter’s Basilica, the Colosseum, the Roman Forum. The students will take a self-guided walking tour that will lead them by Trevi Fountain, Pantheon, Piazza Navona, and the Spanish Steps. As a group, they will make the decision when they are in Rome to either take a cooking class or use that time to explore on their own (in small groups). > > From Rome they will move on to Florence via Assisi. Once in Florence, the group will see the Piazza della Signoria, Ponte Vecchio, Chiesa di Santa Croce, the Gates of Paradise, and finally they will visit the Duomo. While in Florence, Emily and her group will be watching a leather making demonstration. > > Once their visit in Florence is complete, they will travel to the Lucerne region where they will visit Lion Monument and Chapel Bridge. Additionally, they will ride the Pilatus cog railway to the top of Mount Pilatus. They will then travel to Burgundy and tour Dijon. > > Paris is the next stop on this amazing adventure. While in Paris, Emily will visit Notre Dame Cathedral. In other tours she will see Ile de la Cite, Conciergerie, Palace de la Concorde, Champs- Elysees, Arc de Triomphe, Les Invalides, and the Eiffel Tower. > > The final destination of this trip is London. Sites that will be visited in London are The Strand, Trafalgar Square, Leicester Square, Convent Garden, Big Ben and the Houses of Parliament, Piccadilly Circus, St. Paul’s Cathedral, and Westminster Abbey. Emily will have the opportunity to watch the changing of the guard at Buckingham Palace. > > As you can see, this is really a unique opportunity for her and I really hope that it will be one that she can look back on and reflect on how traveling and viewing other cultures and reflecting on all the she has seen as a positive motivator for her and her future. > > Thanks again for reading through this- if you have any questions about Emily or the trip feel free to ask them and I will answer them to the best of my ability. Again, I appreciate your time and consideration of Emily and this adventure! [Is this the tour?](http://www.eftours.com/educational-tour/essence-of-europe) If so, a couple of questions: the price is quoted as $3500, but your GoFund page asks for $4000: why the discrepancy? Secondly, the GoFund page is headed up Emily’s European Art Trip, which suggests the purpose of the trip is to be visit galleries and museums: where on the itinerary are these excursions? The two days in London, for instance, seem to be mostly taken up by sightseeing. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-a-cool-place-to-visit-right-donation-request/715241/45 "2015-03-26T20:11:44Z")
I doubt that **misstee** will respond, but I think that’s the right tour. I priced it on that website assuming a start date of June 6 departing from Des Moines at $4,350. From New York, the price is $4,000. ---
**Author:** ![Nauplius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nauplius/32/51_2.png) [@Nauplius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nauplius)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-a-cool-place-to-visit-right-donation-request/715241/46 "2015-03-26T21:06:13Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I doubt that **misstee** will respond, but I think that’s the right tour. I priced it on that website assuming a start date of June 6 departing from Des Moines at $4,350. From New York, the price is $4,000. That’s for June 2016. You can’t even book the tour earlier than October 2015 so either the trip has already been booked or it is set for next year. ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-a-cool-place-to-visit-right-donation-request/715241/47 "2015-03-27T01:25:49Z")
Here’s my question. The OP states that her son paid for his trip by working but her daughter cannot work that much because she is too young. This seems to indicate that her son was older when he made the trip. Why not wait until her daughter is also older and is able to work to earn the money herself as her brother did? ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-a-cool-place-to-visit-right-donation-request/715241/48 "2015-03-27T08:30:09Z")
I’m beginning to suspect I won’t get an answer to my question. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-a-cool-place-to-visit-right-donation-request/715241/49 "2015-03-27T09:24:30Z")
The OP has posted a very carefully crafted letter. Such that while there are numerous references to the child’s schooling and school performance, at no point does she say this is a school related trip. Now think about that for a second. If you were enlisting financial support, and this was a ‘school’ trip, I’m pretty sure that would figure prominently in your pitch, don’t you think? Instead it have been carefully implied but never stated. And yet the majority appear to have leapt entirely to the conclusion that the OP was aiming for, that this is a typical, school sanctioned/ organized ‘opportunity’. Anybody ever heard of a three week European school trip? I sure haven’t. Colour me unimpressed with the average dopers ability to read for comprehension. ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-a-cool-place-to-visit-right-donation-request/715241/50 "2015-03-27T11:52:39Z")
If Emily’s trip falls through, which I don’t think it will because I think it’s already paid for, I hope you’ll consider this alternative: > **[Homestay Programs | Nacel](https://www.nacel.org/en/homestay-programs)** > > Embark for one of our unforgettable Homestay Immersion Programs: while living with a local host family you will not only learn a language but a culture! The above link is for Nacel, which provides home-stay opportunities abroad. It is a great program! I spent 5 weeks with a French family when I was 15. It’s been modified a bit in the last 25 years in that they now have added a dedicated language study aspect (15 hours). Nacel is not tourism; it truly is cultural immersion. And it’s over the summer so it doesn’t require the commitment of a full year exchange-student program. All they ask is that you’ve had at least ONE YEAR of high school foreign language. (Could the requirements be more minimal?) Any Dopers who know or parent an adventurous, mature teen and are looking for an age-appropriate cultural experience for him/her, should check it out. Also, any family who wants to host a European kid for a month should look into it. IMHO, Nacel is a far better experience for a teen than a “forced march across Europe,” running in and out of 3 tourist attractions a day. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-a-cool-place-to-visit-right-donation-request/715241/51 "2015-03-27T12:21:27Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > The OP has posted a very carefully crafted letter. Such that while there are numerous references to the child’s schooling and school performance, at no point does she say this is a school related trip. > > Now think about that for a second. If you were enlisting financial support, and this was a ‘school’ trip, I’m pretty sure that would figure prominently in your pitch, don’t you think? Instead it have been carefully implied but never stated. > > And yet the majority appear to have leapt entirely to the conclusion that the OP was aiming for, that this is a typical, school sanctioned/ organized ‘opportunity’. Anybody ever heard of a three week European school trip? I sure haven’t. > > Colour me unimpressed with the average dopers ability to read for comprehension. Its almost certainly a school trip - or if not, has some other sponsoring organization (Girl Scouts, church). EF Tours provides a tour guide and sets up the tour. They do NOT provide chaperones. The way they work is that someone (a teacher) will say “I want to take the French Club to France” and they’ll work with EF Tours to do so. EF Tours has a minimum number of chaperones required per kid (and chaperones can get their trip for a deep discount depending on the number of kids signing up). This sort of trip is really common now. This Spring Break my kid’s high school has trips going to Florida, New York City, Italy and Spain through a variety of school organizations and contracted through a variety of travel organizations. Additionally, at the same time, my church has the youth group going to Boston and my daughter’s friend is going on a mission trip to build homes in Central America somewhere. And yes, I’ve heard of three week trips - ours was two last Summer and that was middle schoolers. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-a-cool-place-to-visit-right-donation-request/715241/52 "2015-03-27T13:43:09Z")
And you believe the OP, while soliciting funds, just neglected to mention that ? That you know of a two week trip means nothing to the observation that school trips of three weeks are almost non existent. I have some property in Florida you might like…🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-a-cool-place-to-visit-right-donation-request/715241/53 "2015-03-27T14:10:22Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > … and my daughter’s friend is going on a mission trip to build homes in Central America somewhere. Haven’t the people of Central America suffered enough? ---
**Author:** ![Cinnamon\_Imp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/58956e/32.png) [@Cinnamon\_Imp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cinnamon_Imp)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-a-cool-place-to-visit-right-donation-request/715241/54 "2015-03-27T14:34:04Z")
> [@misstee](#): > > If you have clicked the go fund me link, you will see that my son was able to take a Europe trip last year; he was able to finance most of the trip on his own by working three jobs over the summer and two during the school year. Emily does not have that luxury due to her age. As a family, we cannot help her out as much as we did Kyle because we are helping Kyle with college expenses as well as having another child starting college in the fall of 2015. (Kids… man they are expensive to educate!!) > (snip) > Thanks again for reading through this- if you have any questions about Emily or the trip feel free to ask them and I will answer them to the best of my ability. Again, I appreciate your time and consideration of Emily and this adventure! A couple of questions - did your middle child, College-2015-kid get to go on a European trip too? If so, who funded it? If you can’t afford her vacation now, how are you going to afford her college expenses in four years or so? If you or her grandparents have money set aside for this, could you tap into those funds now to pay for this educational trip? I assume College-21015-kid will still be in college by then, and Kyle possibly in grad-school. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2015, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-a-cool-place-to-visit-right-donation-request/715241/55 "2015-04-01T11:27:55Z")
Hi, **misstee** — I see you haven’t responded to my previous query about the funding yet, but I’ve got a few more questions if you don’t mind. I see the GoFundMe page is administered by Emily’s brother Kyle. Do you and/or Emily share the same abhorrent views towards transgender people that Kyle has been publishing elsewhere on the Internet? Would you still allow Emily to go on the trip if you discovered that a transgender person were one of the other students or a chaperone? And if so, could she be counted upon to treat this person with respect while on the trip? ---
**Author:** ![Cinnamon\_Imp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/58956e/32.png) [@Cinnamon\_Imp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cinnamon_Imp)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2015, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-a-cool-place-to-visit-right-donation-request/715241/56 "2015-04-01T12:02:57Z")
Interesting - cite please? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2015, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-a-cool-place-to-visit-right-donation-request/715241/57 "2015-04-01T13:10:32Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > I see the GoFundMe page is administered by Emily’s brother Kyle. Do you and/or Emily share the same abhorrent views towards transgender people that Kyle has been publishing elsewhere on the Internet? Is it really necessary to look up stuff like that? Given that the OP hasn’t returned, I think she is aware that she got a different reaction than she thought she would. Let it go. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2015, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-a-cool-place-to-visit-right-donation-request/715241/58 "2015-04-01T13:59:52Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Is it really necessary to look up stuff like that? Given that the OP hasn’t returned, I think she is aware that she got a different reaction than she thought she would. Let it go. She hasn’t even logged in to the board in about a week. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2015, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-a-cool-place-to-visit-right-donation-request/715241/59 "2015-04-01T14:11:43Z")
I’m closing this thread. It’s outlived its usefulness. Further comments can be taken to the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2015, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-a-cool-place-to-visit-right-donation-request/715241/60 "2015-04-01T15:36:57Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > Hi, **misstee** — I see you haven’t responded to my previous query about the funding yet, but I’ve got a few more questions if you don’t mind. > > I see the GoFundMe page is administered by Emily’s brother Kyle. Do you and/or Emily share the same abhorrent views towards transgender people that Kyle has been publishing elsewhere on the Internet? Would you still allow Emily to go on the trip if you discovered that a transgender person were one of the other students or a chaperone? And if so, could she be counted upon to treat this person with respect while on the trip? I’m have no idea why you think that bringing the OP’s other children into this was a good idea. Do not bring off board drama here. Do not cyber-stalk the family members of members here. Do not continue this and post personal information on this board. If a member here voluntarily puts up a link that can lead you to personal information about their family through some detective work… well we can’t protect people from themselves. But we are going to stop it when it is brought back here. Any attempts at doxxing will be dealt with swiftly. This was going to be a warning until I saw that you had at least some inkling that there might be a problem with this and that you were going to cooperate with any mod ruling on the matter. So consider this a note. If you have a question about whether something is appropriate to post PM a staff member. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-a-cool-place-to-visit-right-donation-request/715241.md?page=2)