# Europe is mucking around with U.S. politics **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 18, 2004, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-mucking-around-with-u-s-politics/275414 "2004-11-18T03:49:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![bannerrefugee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c68b51/32.png) [@bannerrefugee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bannerrefugee)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-mucking-around-with-u-s-politics/275414/1 "2004-11-18T03:49:51Z")
The European Union (news - web sites) said Wednesday it has selected U.S. products to punish with tariffs next year if Washington doesn’t quickly repeal an antidumping law ruled illegal by the World Trade Organization and The list submitted to the WTO this week targets “vocal U.S. sectors that could help Congress focus its mind on compliance,” from Yahoo What do you think? ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-mucking-around-with-u-s-politics/275414/2 "2004-11-18T03:54:37Z")
I think boycotts have a long history, and can sometimes be a useful way of getting the target’s attention. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-mucking-around-with-u-s-politics/275414/3 "2004-11-18T03:55:09Z")
How is this “mucking around with US politics?” ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-mucking-around-with-u-s-politics/275414/4 "2004-11-18T03:55:20Z")
Well…I have no idea what you are talking about…but…we are signatories to the WTO. So you play by the WTO rules or you get out. ---
**Author:** ![bannerrefugee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c68b51/32.png) [@bannerrefugee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bannerrefugee)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-mucking-around-with-u-s-politics/275414/5 "2004-11-18T04:01:54Z")
> [@](#): > > **andros:** How is this “mucking around with US politics?” > [@](#): > > vocal U.S. sectors that could \*\*help Congress focus its mind \*\* on compliance," Is that clear? ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-mucking-around-with-u-s-politics/275414/6 "2004-11-18T04:07:53Z")
Well, it’s not a boycott, of course. Just retaliatory trade action. We’ve done it – most recently, to some particularly tasty French condiments (I wanna say in 2000 or so). The value of the affected products was mimimal, but they went straight to French pride and oh-by-the-way a lot of French politicians had constituents affected. Prolly not an ideal system, but it manages to work out stuff over time. This is nuthin’. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-mucking-around-with-u-s-politics/275414/7 "2004-11-18T04:17:47Z")
We’ve behaved like international pricks for the past 4 years, and we’ve let America slide into a position where the euros can give us a good rogering: [Dollar Trades Near Record Low; No Agreement Seen to Stem Slide](http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000102&sid=a3OueHLvjSc8&refer=uk) [Senate OKs $800B Debt Limit Hike](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=6&u=/ap/20041118/ap_on_go_co/congress_spending_debt) It’d be inhuman of them not to take advantage of the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-mucking-around-with-u-s-politics/275414/8 "2004-11-18T04:25:40Z")
Raising our debt ceiling by 800 billion takes our debt up to what? 8.2 trillion?? How the hell do you pay that off??? ---
**Author:** ![bannerrefugee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c68b51/32.png) [@bannerrefugee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bannerrefugee)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-mucking-around-with-u-s-politics/275414/9 "2004-11-18T04:26:57Z")
> [@](#): > > **Reeder** Well…I have no idea what you are talking about…but…we are signatories to the WTO. Well I know its hard for you to read Reeder. But we will be here for a while. When your done write us back. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-mucking-around-with-u-s-politics/275414/10 "2004-11-18T04:30:11Z")
> [@bannerrefugee](#): > > Well I know its hard for you to read Reeder. But we will be here for a while. When your done write us back. Europe isn’t doing anything to US that we haven’t done to them. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-mucking-around-with-u-s-politics/275414/11 "2004-11-18T04:40:34Z")
> [@bannerrefugee](#): > > Well I know its hard for you to read Reeder. But we will be here for a while. When your done write us back. Let’s tidy that up, shall we? “Well, I know it’s hard for you to read, **Reeder** , but we will be here for a while. When you’re done, write us back.” 😛 ---
**Author:** ![bannerrefugee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c68b51/32.png) [@bannerrefugee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bannerrefugee)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-mucking-around-with-u-s-politics/275414/12 "2004-11-18T04:40:57Z")
> [@](#): > > **World Eater:** Europe isn’t doing anything to US that we haven’t done to them. Good point. Please point out a situation when we have manipulated European Union politics. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-mucking-around-with-u-s-politics/275414/13 "2004-11-18T04:43:24Z")
You have not yet demonstrated that this economic pressure is in any way “manipulating [US] politics.” ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-mucking-around-with-u-s-politics/275414/14 "2004-11-18T04:44:28Z")
And just in case you missed it: > [@manhattan](#): > > Well, it’s not a boycott, of course. Just retaliatory trade action. We’ve done it – most recently, to some particularly tasty French condiments (I wanna say in 2000 or so). The value of the affected products was mimimal, but they went straight to French pride and oh-by-the-way a lot of French politicians had constituents affected. > > Prolly not an ideal system, but it manages to work out stuff over time. This is nuthin’. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-mucking-around-with-u-s-politics/275414/15 "2004-11-18T05:03:11Z")
> [@bannerrefugee](#): > > Please point out a situation when we have manipulated European Union politics. As **Manhattan** pointed out, the [fight over GM foods](http://www.birminghamfoe.org.uk/newslet/news0604/STORY_6.HTM) > [@](#): > > The US imposed 100% tariffs on EU products such as French mustard and Roquefort cheese. The [steel tariff brouhaha](http://www.globalexchange.org/campaigns/wto/1366.html) [US tax incentives for exports](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A60170-2004Oct25.html) On a slightly less economic front: [US dirty tricks to win vote on Iraq war](http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,905899,00.html) ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-mucking-around-with-u-s-politics/275414/16 "2004-11-18T05:17:51Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > Raising our debt ceiling by 800 billion takes our debt up to what? 8.2 trillion?? > > How the hell do you pay that off??? Well, we’ve already shown that multi-billion dollar debts can be paid off in under 20 years. Not too worried about it when wartime spending will decrease eventually. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-mucking-around-with-u-s-politics/275414/17 "2004-11-18T06:14:33Z")
THey aren’t mucking around with our politics, they’re fucking us like we’ve fucked most of the world over with our protectionist tariffs, quotas, dumping legislation and retaliatory economic acts over the last 200 years or so. To the OP: When come back, bring an understanding of the world economy, free-trade, protectionism, politics, and economic history-it could really help you out on this one. Sam ---
**Author:** ![UselessGit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/74df32/32.png) [@UselessGit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UselessGit)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-mucking-around-with-u-s-politics/275414/18 "2004-11-18T09:01:39Z")
Well, to be fair, your politics need more than a little mucking around with. On a more serious note: of all the things to get upset about, this is what you’re pitting? That’s like complaining to someone you knocked all the teeth out of, about him scratching your knuckles in the process. Or something. ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-mucking-around-with-u-s-politics/275414/19 "2004-11-18T10:43:06Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Well, we’ve already shown that multi-billion dollar debts can be paid off in under 20 years. Not too worried about it when wartime spending will decrease eventually. I have suspected you are an idiot. Unfortunately there can no longer be any doubt. Pick up some reading material; Warren Buffet wrote a couple of good articles on the impact of deficits. When you are done, send the articles to the White House. By the way, Greenspan Jr., it’s difficult to pay of debts with a trade deficit. Is that going to fix itself as well? ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-mucking-around-with-u-s-politics/275414/20 "2004-11-18T10:47:49Z")
> [@Waverly](#): > > I have suspected you are an idiot. Unfortunately there can no longer be any doubt. Pick up some reading material; Warren Buffet wrote a couple of good articles on the impact of deficits. When you are done, send the articles to the White House. > > By the way, Greenspan Jr., it’s difficult to pay of debts with a trade deficit. Is that going to fix itself as well? Huh, can someone clarify all the Reagan bashing about record deficits and debt, yet Bush somehow “squandering” it? No, dear **Waverly** , you are the idiot. Or ill-informed and a partisan hack. Pick one. Your simplistic and childish insults would concern me, but that would insult idiots, simpletons and children. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europe-is-mucking-around-with-u-s-politics/275414.md?page=2)