Have you ever considered the possibility that Europe might not have as a primary goal to “participate meaningfully in any military coalition that might deal with dangers from weapons of mass destruction”, especially in a pre-emptive manner.
Oh, and since you complain about the supposed bias of everyone’s sources, you might be interested in knowing that the Rand Corporation is chaired by Frank C. Carlucci. Does that name ring any bells?
If you went looking for a person who would push for more military spending, he’d be your man. There’s something quite amazing about an organization that is paid by the government to push agendas which will profit their own external companies, such as The Carlyle Group (if there was such a thing as the Illuminati, this is the first place I’d look for it). Where can I get a gig like that?
**PhiloVance **, we had a thread discussing this some time ago. Different people like different styles. I prefer to keep full quotes to a minimum although I do use them when I feel it is necessary. One reason is I prefer avoid clutter and make threads and pages shorter. Often I am responding to points one by one and quoting each point would require a lot of coding which I would inevitably mess up. Sometimes I will mention tyhe name of the poster I am responsing to if I feel it is appropriate but others I prefer to just quote the phrase I am referring to but not the author. I may do this because I believe even the quote is not necessary but for someone who may be a bit lost. If that reader is truly interested he can always search for the author. Other times I may do this more deliberately when I am trying to refute a point without getting more personally entangled with the author. This is the reason I will more often cite the name of posters I am agreeing with or commending. That is a brief explanation of the reasons for my style. Thanks for your observation which I will take into account.
Getting back to december and his long history of Europe bashing I just see that his threads and his opinion can be summed up as: Europe is a bad thing because they are different (meaning worse) from the USA and there is no valid reason why they should want to be different from the USA. They are bad because they want to do things their way instead of just doing what the USA tells them which (obviously) would be better. He scoffs at any plan or proposal which would make Europe a bit better or succeed in anything. Europe is just doomed to failure and anything they try is to be scorned. They’re damned if they do and damned if they don’t. The only way Europe could possibly please december is by doing evrything the US tells them. . . or maybe collective suicide would be better.
That’s exactly backwards. I am opposing this military plan, because I think it will NOT succeed at making Europe better – a point I’ve already made several times in this thread.
Europe has been the cradle of western civilization. I am indeed concerned that certain flaws in the* EU structure* may doom Europe to economic, military and moral failure – failures that would hurt not only Europe, but the whole world.
If you really want to understand where I’m coming from, I believe strongly in economic freedom and political freedom, including low taxes, power in the hands of the voters, separation of powers, freedom to make contracts, etc. I would like the EU to be better on these issues.
december:Europe has been the cradle of western civilization.
december does his absolute damnedest to think of something nice to say about Europe and what he comes up with is the fact that it has a civilization. (But it was out of the “cradle” at least several hundred years ago, so we don’t have to give them any credit for anything more recent.)
In the OP I argued that “Given [Europe’s] social spending obligations, they hardly have the political will now to tolerate the economic and/or political upheaval that would result from huge defence spending. So, they aren’t going to do it…”Today’s London Times provides evidence.
I have no idea whether or not December hates Europeans, but I do know if I did want to read threads about how December hates Europeans, I wouldn’t look in GD.
“Better” as defined by your set of values. Unfortunately for you, Europeans are not obligated to share your values. You want Europe to be free so long as they do what you want, not what they want. They are doing what they want. It’s called democracy. Get over it.
By the same token Europe would probably like the US to not have the death penalty, to not be so violent, to have better social programs and to not go around invading other countries at the drop of a hat. And yet we do not have a European poster who continually feels the need to open threads expressing his heartfelt concern for the sorry state of the USA and its barbaric practices.
If I remember correctly MrT is in fact in the UK and quite skeptic towards anything that might strengthen and solidify his own federal government.
As for december… gee whiz pop old boy, will you ever give up? I am frankly amazed at your tenacity. What really gets to me is that I agree with some little few parts of your criticism of the EU system. HOWEVER, in difference to you I will readily admit that I might be wrong and that although I embrace more US-like libertarianism and fiscal conservatism the opposite works as well, just not exactly the way I like it.
Hold your breath, cover your ears and holler as much as you will december, you still won’t be the fountain of all wisdom and absolute truth.
"Once all the Germans were warlike and mean,
But that couldn’t happen again.
We taught them a lesson in nineteen eighteen,
And they’ve hardly bothered us since then.
So sleep well, my darling, the sandman can linger,
We know our buddies won’t give us the finger.
Heil–hail–the Wehrmacht, I mean the Bundeswehr,
Hail to our loyal ally!"
december does his absolute damnedest to think of something nice to say about Europe and what he comes up with is the fact that it has a civilization. (But it was out of the “cradle” at least several hundred years ago, so we don’t have to give them any credit for anything more recent.) 