# European Countries: the subdivisions **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 24, 2011, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-countries-the-subdivisions/586719 "2011-06-24T15:51:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2011, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-countries-the-subdivisions/586719/21 "2011-06-25T14:01:19Z")
> [@Bartman](#): > > Let me do it right now… > > onto Iberia: Spain, Poland Actually, the “P” country is Portugal. You forgot Andorra and (the British colony of) Gibraltar. > [@](#): > > down into the Balkans: Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Serbia, Kosovo (kinda sorta, not yet completely independent), FYR of Macedonia, the last Yugoslavian one I’m forgetting Montenegro. **Giles** : That bid of Moldova whose name escaped you is [Transnistria](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnistria), or (more formally) the Pridnestrovian Moldavian Republic. ---
**Author:** ![Bartman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@Bartman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bartman)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2011, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-countries-the-subdivisions/586719/22 "2011-06-25T20:38:57Z")
> [@Sternvogel](#): > > Actually, the “P” country is Portugal. You forgot Andorra and (the British colony of) Gibraltar. :smack: Portugal. I’ll claim a Freudian slip on that one. My Ex lived a number of years in Portugal. And I like the Poles. Andorra was a total miss. But I remembered and left Gibraltar off intentionally. It is a British Overseas Territory, and their participation in international organizations is as part of GB. Eg in European Parliamentary elections, they vote as part of the South West England constituency. So as far I am concerned it doesn’t count as a country. ---
**Author:** ![sohvan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/96bed5/32.png) [@sohvan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sohvan)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2011, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-countries-the-subdivisions/586719/23 "2011-06-26T15:00:39Z")
For me a division like this would come naturally: **Northern Europe** Nordic Countries : Finland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Iceland Baltic Countries: Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia **Eastern Europe** Most of the countries formerly belonging to the Soviet Union, and everything east of Austria and Germany. **Western Europe** UK, Ireland, Germany, France, Austria etc. **Southern Europe** Portugal, Spain, Italy, and Greece, and some of the countries in the Balkans. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2011, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-countries-the-subdivisions/586719/24 "2011-06-26T15:39:53Z")
France historically has provinces, which are similar to but not quite the same as the regions (example: Brittany is a region of four departmented; add Nantes and you have the province of Brittany). Ireland historically has five provinces—the Old Irish word for province is _coiced_, “fifth.” Basically Connacht, Ulster, Munster, Leinster, and the other one. The big four are relatively stable over time, but the borders did move a bit. The fifth one is usally Meath (mostly Meath & Westmeath). I divide it a bit hierarchically, partly by historic religion and partly by language, and partly by geography. Celtic—1) Ireland; 2) N. Ireland, Scotland, Man; 3) Wales, Cornwall, Brittany Romance—1) N. France; 2) S. France, Monaco; 3) Spain, Portugal, Andorra; 4) N. Italy, microstates, Malta; 5) S. Italy / Sicily; 6) Romania, Moldova Germanic—1) England / S. Scotland; 2) Iceland; 3) Norway, Sweden, Denmark; 4) Germany; 5) Benelux; 6) Austria, Switzerland, Lichtenstein, Hungary Baltic—1) Finland, Estonia; 2) Latvia, Lithuania Slavic—1) Poland, Czech, Slovakia, Slovenia, Croatia; 2) Russia, Belarus, Ukraine; 3) Bulgaria, Serbia, Bosnia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Bulgaria, Albania Extreme SE—1) Greece & Greek Cyprus; 2) European Turkey & Turkish Cyprus; 3) Azeris and Turkic Caucausus; 4) Georgia, Armenia, Chechnya, Ossetia, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2011, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-countries-the-subdivisions/586719/25 "2011-06-26T17:02:57Z")
> [@phreesh](#): > > Slight hijack, but what are all the types of country subdivisions? > > I think Switzerland has cantons and Germany has states. Does anybody have provinces? Maybe France? Any other types of subdivisions? The UK has the individual countries/provinces, and each of these are split into counties. London has its own assembly ruling on local issues. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2011, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-countries-the-subdivisions/586719/26 "2011-06-26T23:23:42Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > France has _regions_ that are subdivided into _departments_. Themselves divided into cantons and further down into communes (and, according to an online joke then into cafe booth and floor tiles) > [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Romance—1) N. France; 2) S. France, Monaco; 3) Spain, Portugal, Andorra; 4) N. Italy, microstates, **Malta** ; 5) S. Italy / Sicily; 6) Romania, Moldova Nitpick : Maltese isn’t a romance language. It’s an Arabic language with borrowings from other languages from around the Mediterranean sea. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-countries-the-subdivisions/586719/27 "2011-06-27T00:04:32Z")
> [@Bartman](#): > > :smack: Portugal. I’ll claim a Freudian slip on that one. My Ex lived a number of years in Portugal. And I like the Poles. > > Andorra was a total miss. But I remembered and left Gibraltar off intentionally. It is a British Overseas Territory, and their participation in international organizations is as part of GB. Eg in European Parliamentary elections, they vote as part of the South West England constituency. So as far I am concerned it doesn’t count as a country. Cyprus should be somewhere in your list. (if it wasn’t for the ridiculous qualifiers for the eurocup I wouldn’t have remembered.) ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-countries-the-subdivisions/586719/28 "2011-06-27T00:40:29Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Nitpick : Maltese isn’t a romance language. It’s an Arabic language with borrowings from other languages from around the Mediterranean sea. I know—there are a few other inconsistencies in my list, like Belgium and Albania and what have you. What can I say, it’s idiosyncratic. ---
**Author:** ![Bartman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@Bartman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bartman)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-countries-the-subdivisions/586719/29 "2011-06-27T00:42:40Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > Cyprus should be somewhere in your list. > (if it wasn’t for the ridiculous qualifiers for the eurocup I wouldn’t have remembered.) It was in my list… kinda… it was explicitly mentioned as being excluded. Nicosia is closer to Beirut (151 miles), Damascus (204 miles), Tel Aviv (228 miles), Ramallah (249 miles), Jerusalem (257 miles), Gaza (261 miles), Amman (267 miles), Ankara (336 miles), Cairo (378 miles), Istanbul (470 miles), and Mosul (553 miles) than it is to Athens (570 miles), which is the closest European capital. Geographically Cyprus is clearly Asian. It has clear social and economic ties with Europe (namely Greece), which have lead to its inclusion in the EU. But it is no more European than Egypt is. And Alexandria is only 15 miles further from Athens than Nicosia. ---
**Author:** ![Walther\_Ego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8dc957/32.png) [@Walther\_Ego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walther_Ego)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-countries-the-subdivisions/586719/30 "2011-06-27T11:22:30Z")
North: Baltic, Scandinavian South: Iberian, Italy, Malta, Balkans West: Ireland, the UK, France, Benelux East: Russia, Ukraine, Caucasus, Belarus Central: the rest ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-countries-the-subdivisions/586719/31 "2011-06-27T12:22:24Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Groups that make sense: > > Balkans > Baltic Countries > British Isles (though don’t tell the Irish that I said that) > Central Europe > Central Eastern Europe > Eastern Europe > Former Communist Countries > Former Soviet Union > Former Yugoslavia > Iberian Peninsula > Mediterranean Countries > Northern Europe > Scandinavia > Southeastern Europe > Western Europe > > Of course, there’s a lot of overlap up there. I live in England - all of the above would be comprehensible to me. I would not be able to reel off such an extensive list as that, but I would pretty much instantly understand what anyone was talking about, if they mentioned any of those categories. ---
**Author:** ![willthekittensurvive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/91b2a8/32.png) [@willthekittensurvive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/willthekittensurvive)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-countries-the-subdivisions/586719/32 "2011-06-27T13:26:21Z")
you can also divide Europe in : Rich vs Poor Small vs Large Original EU vs Newcomers [Schengen](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Agreement)vs Non Schengen ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-countries-the-subdivisions/586719/33 "2011-06-27T18:54:27Z")
Some of my mental limits don’t include only European countries, and/or include only parts of some countries: Mediterranean. That includes Southeastern France but not the rest, as well as Turkey, Israel and any countries on Africa’s northern shores (and also Portugal, San Marino, the Vatican and Andorra, although they don’t have a Med shore per se, and Monaco). There’s also Western Europe, and Northern Europe (anywhere which is not Eastern and not Mediterranean), and Eastern Europe (aka former Communist bloc), and Scandinavia, and Those People Who Live on Islands and Speak English. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-countries-the-subdivisions/586719/34 "2011-06-27T19:00:13Z")
ETA: the Spanish kingdoms used to have different divisions (and the names of those divisions could be unhomogeneous within a same kingdom - what is that “simple” thing thee speakest of?); the Napoleonic invasion gave us “provinces”, which nowadays are grouped into “Autonomous Regions” defined to correspond more-or-less to historic divisions. Pre-1978, we had provinces and regions but the regions were a mental construct: they didn’t have any kind of government body. Now each AR has an Autonomous Government, as do the two Autonomous Cities, whereas the Provinces are an administrative division but their main impact on government is being the defining unit for Parlamentary elections - there’s no “provincial governments” (there are civil and military provincial governors but they’re administrative managers, not legislators, and they’re sent from Madrid). ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-countries-the-subdivisions/586719/35 "2011-06-27T19:15:46Z")
> [@phreesh](#): > > Did you say 2/3rds? How the hell do the 1/3 and 2/3 work together if they’re in different countries? > > The UK is nutty. Well yeah: ever wonder what all the violence and trouble was about in Ireland in the second half of the 20th century? There’s your answer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-countries-the-subdivisions/586719.md?page=1)