# European housing - what's with all the doors and corridors? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 14, 2019, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713 "2019-01-14T01:16:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713/101 "2019-01-15T16:01:40Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > As for houses, the general default I have always seen is that you must supply your own washer and dryer. When I was house-shopping, some of the houses I looked at came with a washer & dryer and some didn’t. The one I ended up buying did. Doing a quick bit of browsing on [realtor.com](http://realtor.com), I see that listings for houses typically include a list of appliances that they come with. Some include washer & dryer, some don’t. One issue is that some dryers are electric and some run on gas. I suspect that people who move to a new house are especially likely to leave their appliances behind if they don’t match the hookup in the place they’re moving to. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713/102 "2019-01-15T16:49:16Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > I’ve lived in Germany all my life, and I don’t recall ever seeing that. Sure, you’re generally able to lock a door from the inside, but you don’t have to, and if you don’t, operating the handle is all you need to open it. The door generally can’t be opened from the outside without a key, though. Right, exactly what I experienced as well. And the hygiene stipulations in Germany at least state that you have to have two doors that can be closed between the place you cook and the place where what you have digested is dumped. That is usually the door between the corridor and the kitchen and the door between the corridor and the toilet. And corridors are quite practical, imagine having many rooms in which different people live: you don’t want to have rooms you have to cross in case you want to go to the other side of the house. They are good places to stock your books, for instance, or hang nice pictures so they don’t fade bc. of the sunlight. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713/103 "2019-01-15T17:41:29Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > I’m really curious about the cabinets, any move would require purchasing and installing new cabinets which is not trivial. > […] > 4 - Pay $15,000 to $50,000 for the whole process > If a person is just changing apartments, this seems excessive. It must be cheaper, quicker and less involved? That may be one reason why IKEA is such a big deal in Europe. Make it $1,000 and a couple of hours. I have been told many Americans do not even know what IKEA is. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713/104 "2019-01-15T17:55:04Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > And a stove is a stove is a freaking stove and a fridge is a fridge is a freaking fridge. No, it is most definitely not. I guess you don’t cook much? ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713/105 "2019-01-15T18:01:41Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > How is this possible? > The main reason for renting an apartment, instead of buying, is that you want the flexibility to move, and not stay for 3 years. > Young people, especially university students, often move to a new place every year, or less. > How does this work in your country, if leases are 3 years long? It depends on the laws of the country. In Belgium for instance, leases are usually by law for 9 years and renewable, but you (not the landlord!) can move out at no cost after threee years, if you move after two years, you pay one month’s worth rent additionaly as a penalty, if you move after one year, two month’s rent, and if you move during the first 12 months, three rents. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713/106 "2019-01-15T19:05:55Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > No, it is most definitely not. I guess you don’t cook much? I cook all the time. I have never felt the need to spend money to replace the stove that came with the residence. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713/107 "2019-01-15T20:56:30Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > This is the main difference. In the US kitchen cabinets are almost always fitted to the room and affixed to the walls (and each other) with a solid counter top across the lowers, leaving specific spaces for the large appliances. This makes virtually all cabinet jobs “custom”, even if the cabinets themselves are pre-fabricated. Exactly. Even if someone is ok hanging the cabinets on the wall (which isn’t trivial, most use a pro), to remove the cabinets under the counter top increases the complexity. If the countertop is granite then you need to replace that (due to high chance of cracking). If it’s something like quartz you could do it, but again not trivial. > [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > That may be one reason why IKEA is such a big deal in Europe. Make it $1,000 and a couple of hours. I have been told many Americans do not even know what IKEA is. I think most people in the US know IKEA, we have their stores here also. Here’s someone that used IKEA, they spent $8,000 on the cabinets, $4,000 on the counter tops, plus installation costs. > **[I spent $35,000 remodeling my kitchen, and here are 10 big lessons I learned](https://www.azcentral.com/story/entertainment/home/2016/02/05/kitchen-remodeling-lessons-real-estate-arizona/77562934/)** > > The tiny kitchen in our 1980 home had a dropped ceiling, fluorescent box lights, tile countertops and original major appliances, including a groovy trash compactor. Here’s one for $4,000 and 8 hours just to assemble IKEA cabinets. > **[A Fresh Take on Two-Tone Kitchen Cabinets](https://www.houselogic.com/by-room/kitchen/fresh-take-on-two-tone-kitchen-cabinets/)** > > Two-tone kitchen cabinets have evolved. New color and finish combinations can give you a new look for less than a remodeling job and boost your home's resale value. I think we’re probably talking about apples and oranges regarding what is being installed. ---
**Author:** ![JR\_Brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JR\_Brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JR_Brown)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713/108 "2019-01-15T22:29:31Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Huh? If I want cabinets, I take the measures, go to a shop (or even shop online), buy the cabinets and I have them delivered the same day or the next. It also wouldn’t occur to me to hire a contractor. Why for? Screwing a cabinet in the wall? And if I can’t do it myself, I can’t imagine needing to wait several months to find someone able to spend two hours in my place drilling holes and fixing a cabinet. Just chiming in to say that, as an American, I don’t think I’ve ever even _visited_ an American house that didn’t have built-to-fit cabinets that would take a crowbar and a few hours of heavy labor to remove, much less replace. And as part of that you’d have to tear down the counter, since the undercounter cabinets support it, and also remove the sink, since it’s attached to the counter… The over-the-counter cabinets would be easier to remove, but they are usually shaped to provide extra space over the sink and stove, and of course the fridge, not to mention gaps for windows, etc., so the replacements would still have to be custom-fitted. Actually, I’m having difficulty imagining how the just-screw-it-to-the-wall cabinets you describe would even work; do you have a link to some pictures somewhere? ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713/109 "2019-01-16T00:37:32Z")
> [@JR\_Brown](#): > > Just chiming in to say that, as an American, I don’t think I’ve ever even _visited_ an American house that didn’t have built-to-fit cabinets that would take a crowbar and a few hours of heavy labor to remove, much less replace. And as part of that you’d have to tear down the counter, since the undercounter cabinets support it, and also remove the sink, since it’s attached to the counter… The over-the-counter cabinets would be easier to remove, but they are usually shaped to provide extra space over the sink and stove, and of course the fridge, not to mention gaps for windows, etc., so the replacements would still have to be custom-fitted. > > Actually, I’m having difficulty imagining how the just-screw-it-to-the-wall cabinets you describe would even work; do you have a link to some pictures somewhere? German here. I did it once, in one day, with the help of about six or seven friends, that is moving a one man household including the whole kitchen with appliances. I had bought the kitchen four years before, originally custom made for my former apartment. It was not trivial to rearrange the different parts, the places of the sink and the electrical devices (stove and dish washer) had to be rearranged according to the supply lines in the new apartment, and that meant that the whole countertop had to be replaced and reworked to fit the new arrangement. But you can buy a variety of kitchen countertops by the meter in every home improvement center, at least here, and if you got one ore two good home workers in your team with the right tools, that’s not much of a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713/110 "2019-01-16T01:00:24Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > I would guess that up until the 1940s or 1950s, American house design was much more likely to involve separate rooms connected by doors, and to involve a central hall or corridor. Open-plan and interconnected house design then became fashionable, but it was a generation or more before the fashion was taken up in Europe and, even then, not to anything like the same extent. > > Front doors opening directly into living rooms may be convenient for dramatic purposes, or simply for ease of set design/construction. But where do you hang up your wet coat and leave your dirty boots and dripping umbrella? A lot of American homes built from the 20s to the 40s had the front door open into a big hall with a closet on one end. The hall would be wide enough for hatracks and a bench. They also often had two living rooms, many times on either side of the hall. In many cases what I believe was the formal room had no direct access to the rest of the house, except in those designs where the formal room and living room could be joined via opening a large pocket door. ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713/111 "2019-01-16T01:16:40Z")
I find the entry hall a great feature. Take off your boots , hang up your coat. It’s nice to be sitting on the couch and not have a freezing wind blow on you when ever someone comes in. It also kind of serves as an airlock so that freezing draft doesn’t come blowing through your open floor plan. Also nice if you are the person coming in. Especially to someone else’s home. Not to have to stand or kneel awkwardly undressing in the living room on a 3’x3’ tiled space in front of the door. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713/112 "2019-01-16T03:01:02Z")
Let’s see. The townhouse I rented for years had hookups in the basement for a washer and dryer, but you had to provide your own. So we did (a GE set for something like $800), and they eventually got moved into a purchased house years later. Which was lucky, as the house was built in the early 50s and had the hookups in the kitchen, and the little ones that were purchased for the apartment actually fit well in the kitchen. Most sold these days are too big for the available space. The same townhouse also required installing our own curtain rods, as the windows came with no treatments. I’ve insisted on only moving into apartments with included in-unit washer/dryer since college. By the time I was 25 I was tired of dealing with laundromats. You’ll generally pay more, and it may be those little ones instead of separate larger units, but it’s a common option. I have left improvements in apartments over the years. Generally not too much or too expensive–fancy and expensive ($20 each at the time) dimmable LED lights in a ceiling fixture, a badly-needed towel bar, extension chains for a ceiling fan, those sorts of things. With the popularity of wall-mounting TVs, most apartments I’ve seen are fine with fairly large holes in the walls as long as they’re still under a specific size. The problem with IKEA in the US is that plenty of people know of it, but cannot easily shop at one. There’s a million people in the Albuquerque metro area (easily the largest city in the state by a factor of 10) and it’s centrally located in the state. The closest IKEA stores are in Denver, roughly 425 miles away, or Phoenix, which is about the same distance. I’d pick Denver in a heartbeat. The closest one to El Paso is, I think, about 600 miles if you stay in Texas and 425 miles if you are willing to deal with Phoenix. Albany, NY, which has a surprising amount of near-flagship stores, is a drive all the way to the NYC area and you’re probably better off in New Jersey than Brooklyn or Long Island. Sure, you can always get things shipped, but it’s really quite expensive and slow. They really don’t have very many stores in the US, and they’re highly concentrated in large metro areas. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713/113 "2019-01-16T03:51:56Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I forgot to measure the height of my bed, but generally speaking, being a person of approx 5 ft 8 in height (173 cm), I expect to be able to sit on the edge of a bed and my feet not touch the floor, or if they do, my knees should still be lower than my hips. If my feet touch the floor while sitting upright and my knees are higher than my hips, then the bed is too low. Then, yes, bed are considerably lower over here. In fact, many are plainly at floor level. There’s a bed as high as what you describe in my late grandmother’s house. But I would suspect it’s more than 80 years old and it might very well be the only one that high I slept in in my life (I wouldn’t swear it, though). ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713/114 "2019-01-16T04:02:01Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > You can see how, the more often you think you might need to move, the less you want to be carting a lot of stuff around with you Yes, I envisioned that. That people might tend to stay longer in one place over here, hence have a strongest tendency to consider a place as their own. I know a number of people who rent and haven’t moved in decades. In fact my parents rented the same place for I think almost 30 years, leaving it only when they retired (and they changed the kitchen cabinets twice, when I think of it). Now I really don’t know how different it is from this point of view, though. There are certainly statistics about this out there. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713/115 "2019-01-16T04:14:56Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > How is this possible? > The main reason for renting an apartment, instead of buying, is that you want the flexibility to move, and not stay for 3 years. > Young people, especially university students, often move to a new place every year, or less. > How does this work in your country, if leases are 3 years long? The tenant needs only to warn three months in advance (and even less in some circumstances). The 3 years duration of the lease essentially prevents the _landlord_ from evicting the tenant during this duration. And most people don’t rent because they want to be flexible but because they can’t afford to buy. For most tenants, the place their rent is their long term residence, and they have no particular intent to move. Once again, I don’t know how the %age of tenants vs owners compare between France and the USA, but I assume that a larger %age of Americans own their place. Although I’m not convinced it would be much in different for large cities, because I doubt many people can afford to buy an apartment in New York, for instance. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713/116 "2019-01-16T04:24:01Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > There are many areas of France where you can get six-months leases. Whether that’s by using some loophole or theoretically illegal, I don’t know. No, it’s legal, but only for apartments provided with furniture (“meublés”) that have always followed different rules, are a small part of the rentals and most often rented to people who work temporarily in one place (which is probably your case). ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713/117 "2019-01-16T04:44:26Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > And corridors are quite practical, imagine having many rooms in which different people live: you don’t want to have rooms you have to cross in case you want to go to the other side of the house. They are good places to stock your books, for instance, or hang nice pictures so they don’t fade bc. of the sunlight. Sure, if you have many rooms, it definitely makes sense. The problem is that I’ve seen and even stayed in many older (as I said build up to the 1970, maybe) small, two rooms (one living room, one bedroom) apartments that still had a long corridor taking up at least 10% of the surface. Even a less than 20 square meters studio with a corridor. And we’re talking about Paris or Paris area where the square meter isn’t precisely cheap. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713/118 "2019-01-16T04:53:42Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > Is it actually standard for the previous owners to leave the refrigerator? Obviously that’s often the more convenient option for them (since they might not need it where they’re going), but they’re typically freestanding so I don’t think it would be safe to actually assume that you’ll get a free fridge with the house. It’s definitely the norm here for all major appliances and anything that is physically attached to be part of the property sale unless it’s specifically excluded. In fact when my mom was selling the condo where I grew up, she had a beautiful stained glass lamp hanging from the dining room ceiling that my grandfather, an antique dealer, had carefully repaired himself. She almost bit off the real estate agent’s head when he assumed that was part of the sale. Same when we sold our condo - we had a stained-glass lamp that we had bought in Istanbul hanging from the dining room ceiling. Luckily we had kept the boring, off-the-shelf ceiling lamp that was there when we bought the place, so we could just reinstall it before the photos for the listing were taken and avoid any misunderstandings. And before that, when we bought the condo, the previous owners had installed a surround sound system in the living room, with speakers mounted on the wall. They specifically excluded those from the sale when writing up the contract (and then forgot later that they had done so, which meant that they removed them right before the closing. I didn’t care about the speakers, but it would have been nice if they’d patched the paint!) As for the fridge we bought and left in the condo (the previous one died and was too expensive to repair): yes, it was freestanding, but it had an ice maker, which required a much handier person than either of us is to hook up the water line. I do miss that fridge and the washer/dryer set that we bought for the condo; they are much nicer than the ones we got with the house that we bought a year and a half ago! ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713/119 "2019-01-16T05:03:22Z")
> [@JR\_Brown](#): > > Actually, I’m having difficulty imagining how the just-screw-it-to-the-wall cabinets you describe would even work; do you have a link to some pictures somewhere? Here’s the Ikea catalog : [Tous les meubles et accessoires IKEA pour votre intérieur - IKEA Belgique](https://www.ikea.com/be/fr/produits/cuisines/meubles-de-cuisine/) Here’s another a bit more fancy : [https://www.conforama.fr/projet-cuisine/nos-cuisines?utm\_medium=search\_marque&xtor=SEC-1227-GOO-](https://www.conforama.fr/projet-cuisine/nos-cuisines?utm_medium=search_marque&xtor=SEC-1227-GOO-) But probably better, here’s a video made by the second store, explaining how to install your kitchen furniture : [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57Aibg43JAY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57Aibg43JAY) ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713/120 "2019-01-16T07:48:13Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > In the UK, rental agreements normally stipulate that you can’t make **any** changes to the place at all, quite often including adding picture hooks, and certainly not ripping out kitchens. In those circumstances, the landlord can either demand that you reinstate the original fixtures and decorations, or demand recompense for the changes. And in Spain, a lot of things such as “having decent kitchen cabinets” which are the owner’s duty can be done by the renter by mutual agreement: better to have everything in writing, though. The only time I had a landlord who didn’t fix things ASAP or, if they couldn’t, ask me if I would be able to do it and indicate that they’d accept “temporary reduction in payment” as a way for me to transfer them the cost, was also the one landlord who expected to get the kitchen furnished for free. I come from a family of accountants and lawyers… 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713.md?page=7)