# European housing - what's with all the doors and corridors? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 14, 2019, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713 "2019-01-14T01:16:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713/161 "2019-01-19T14:14:04Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > The Japanese do [just that](https://web-japan.org/kidsweb/explore/housing/q1.html) and now you’ve got me wondering how many pairs of shoes they own. Maybe it’s permissible to carry shoes into the home and put them on a piece of paper in a closet or something. The [\*genkan \*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genkan)referred to in that article is not a common feature of American houses or apartments. It’s not surprising that a culture where everyone leaves their shoes by the front door has a designated space for it - but I also wonder if there are any other cultures (other than large US cities) where sharing an apartment with virtual strangers is common? There’s two parts to the issue - one is that no matter what **Acsenray** thinks ," no shoes in the house" is not even close to universal in the US. The second, related part is roommates - if your landlord rents the four bedrooms out separately you’re likely end up with a mix of “shoes off” and “shoes on” people. As it happens, my house is a shoes off house and we have an enclosed porch. Which _would_ be nothing but shoes if we didn’t keep them hidden in cabinets. ---
**Author:** ![Brayne\_Ded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Brayne\_Ded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brayne_Ded)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713/162 "2019-01-19T14:27:33Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > A lot of the vending machines in Barcelona’s subways already take phone payments; if you have an app they take, just approach it to the same spot used by contactless debit cards. I’ll check that out when I am at a conference in Barcelona in five weeks time. I am pretty sure that not just Barcelona does this, and it will quickly become widespread throughout Europe. The contactless direct debit thing makes it possible to do low value transactions very quickly, which is just what is needed for things like public transport and parking tickets. BTW, there is a limit of AFAIK 30 Euro on any such transactions, to provide some protection if your Smartphone goes astray. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713/163 "2019-01-19T15:47:32Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > but I also wonder if there are any other cultures (other than large US cities) where sharing an apartment with virtual strangers is common? I live in the UK, not the US, and it’s pretty common over here, especially in larger cities, but I can find adverts for just one room in a share in my local town, population around 10,000. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713/164 "2019-01-19T16:39:17Z")
> [@Filbert](#): > > I live in the UK, not the US, and it’s pretty common over here, especially in larger cities, but I can find adverts for just one room in a share in my local town, population around 10,000. Also common in Spain and France. In Spain the smaller places tend to go word of mouth, but you can find a “to share” section in every housing website or app. ---
**Author:** ![BleizDu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@BleizDu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BleizDu)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713/165 "2019-01-19T17:32:14Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > Eh, it depends on where and how old the apartment or house is. Our house is in a working-class Chicago neighborhood and is about 100 years old; the bedrooms are about 100 square feet. The “one bedroom” thing refers to the whole size of the flat, not the size of the actual room where you sleep. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713/166 "2019-01-19T19:24:25Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Also common in Spain and France. In Spain the smaller places tend to go word of mouth, but you can find a “to share” section in every housing website or app. I might not have been clear enough - I’m sure that there are many places where three existing roommates might find someone (through a listing or word of mouth) to replace the fourth one who moved out. What I’m not sure about is whether there are other places where the landlord would place the listing and rent the room with absolutely no input from the three existing tenants, who may not even meet number 4 until he’s moving in. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713/167 "2019-01-19T20:34:11Z")
> [@BleizDu](#): > > The “one bedroom” thing refers to the whole size of the flat, not the size of the actual room where you sleep. That seems insanely small then. For instance, the minimum size recommendation for a studio flat [in London](https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/wiki/Studio_flat) is 37 square metres ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713/168 "2019-01-19T20:55:09Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > I might not have been clear enough - I’m sure that there are many places where three existing roommates might find someone (through a listing or word of mouth) to replace the fourth one who moved out. What I’m not sure about is whether there are other places where the landlord would place the listing and rent the room with absolutely no input from the three existing tenants, who may not even meet number 4 until he’s moving in. Yes. That’s what will often happen here as well. Sometimes tenants will band together to rent out a whole place and split it. Many landlords won’t allow that though; they want to pick their own tenants, and not risk the original renters letting their flaky idiot friend move in if someone leaves. Landlords have more control if rooms are let individually, directly by them or a management company. The obnoxious shoe-leaving stuff-nicker I mentioned in post #147 actually moved in while I was on holiday. Some random girl opened the door as I was rummaging for a key. The landlord hadn’t even mentioned he was getting a new tenant, though I had been in touch with him while I was away. ---
**Author:** ![BleizDu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@BleizDu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BleizDu)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713/169 "2019-01-19T21:15:41Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > That seems insanely small then. For instance, the minimum size recommendation for a studio flat [in London](https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/wiki/Studio_flat) is 37 square metres Ha, so it’s way lower in France, min size for a studio is 16 or 18 square meters. With the main room being at least 9 square meters. (Though there can be exceptions, and it depends on the height of the ceiling.) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713/170 "2019-01-19T21:25:23Z")
One oddity of American housing is built-in closets. In many other countries, it’s common for you to have to buy wardrobes to put your stuff in, because there aren’t any built-in closets. However, a lot of local/municipal governments here bar a property owner from advertising a room as a bedroom unless it has a built-in closet (essentially a tiny room inside a room) and an external door or sufficiently large window that can be used as an emergency exit. A room without a closet would have to be relabeled, for example, as a “den” or storage space, even if it’s expected that the residents will use it as a bedroom. So that incentivizes property owners to build closets, because the greater number of bedrooms, the higher the price you can seek. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713/171 "2019-01-19T21:27:07Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > That seems insanely small then. For instance, the minimum size recommendation for a studio flat [in London](https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/wiki/Studio_flat) is 37 square metres Though note that page also says ‘micro flats’ as small as 13m² are also available in London. Out of curiosity, I had a peek at the micro flats’ page; estimated cost for one is £1272 a month, in zone 1, and you may not even get a kitchen. Eesh. You could rent a small Northern town for that. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713/172 "2019-01-19T21:43:43Z")
Remind me never to live in London! ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713/173 "2019-01-19T21:55:15Z")
London will probably get cheaper after March. ---
**Author:** ![Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Springtime_for_Spacers)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713/174 "2019-01-19T23:06:45Z")
> [@Filbert](#): > > Though note that page also says ‘micro flats’ as small as 13m² are also available in London. Out of curiosity, I had a peek at the micro flats’ page; estimated cost for one is £1272 a month, in zone 1, and you may not even get a kitchen. Eesh. You could rent a small Northern town for that. These are often rented by someone who has a real home elsewhere but works in London. ---
**Author:** ![Ronald\_Raygun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c67d28/32.png) [@Ronald\_Raygun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ronald_Raygun)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713/175 "2019-01-20T03:26:15Z")
I grew up in the US, in a Victorian house built in 1886. There was an entrance corridor with doors leading to a parlor and a dining room. These two rooms were also separated by pocket doors. The kitchen was behind the dining room, separated by a door. A staircase led from the corridor to the second story. Most houses I see from this time have since been renovated to eliminate these features. Typically, the entrance corridor gets absorbed into a living room. I wish we could install our own light fixtures. I rent an apartment, and everything is hideous. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713/176 "2019-01-20T12:58:11Z")
> [@Ronald\_Raygun](#): > > I grew up in the US, in a Victorian house built in 1886. There was an entrance corridor with doors leading to a parlor and a dining room. These two rooms were also separated by pocket doors. The kitchen was behind the dining room, separated by a door. A staircase led from the corridor to the second story. > > Most houses I see from this time have since been renovated to eliminate these features. Typically, the entrance corridor gets absorbed into a living room. I grew up in a farmhouse build not much later than that, and the upstairs had probably been renovated at some point or the builders had gotten lazy. There would have been a large corridor upstairs to the three bedrooms, but one of the walls was no longer there, so it turned into a combination corridor/playroom … _with a closet_ 😕 I count it as having a corridor because we didn’t play in the corridor part too much because it still felt like a corridor. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2019, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713/177 "2019-01-21T03:34:07Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > I might not have been clear enough - I’m sure that there are many places where three existing roommates might find someone (through a listing or word of mouth) to replace the fourth one who moved out. What I’m not sure about is whether there are other places where the landlord would place the listing and rent the room with absolutely no input from the three existing tenants, who may not even meet number 4 until he’s moving in. Yes, the same pages are used by both. While uncommon, in Spain we also still have _pensiones_, which are officially ranked as the lowest class of “public accomodation” (below hostales, and these below hoteles): in those, you may rent for any period of time from a night to years and you get room, boarding, no right to cook, share bathroom and dining room with everybody else. The landlord (usually a landlady) does the cooking. > [@Acsenray](#): > > a lot of local/municipal governments here bar a property owner from advertising a room as a bedroom unless it has a built-in closet (essentially a tiny room inside a room) . That’s two different things: built-in closets are common in Spain for houses less than 50 years old; _walk-in_ closets are not. ---
**Author:** ![PitJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9bcb4/32.png) [@PitJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PitJ)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2019, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713/178 "2019-01-21T10:23:45Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > In America you can always buy a new refrigerator/freezer, dish-washing machine, stove/range/oven, microwave, overhead light fixtures, and kitchen cabinets if you want to. It’s wonderful that that the standard assumption is that you won’t have to. And that’s in a house. > > Why would you care to bother about that in a rented apartment/flat? It’s the landlord’s responsibility and expense to provide you with working appliances. One of the biggest benefits of renting is that the landlord maintains the facilities. A lot of people even want the sofas, tables, beds, and chairs provided by the landlord. Fully furnished rentals are not uncommon. I am German and live in that country. I couldn’t even imagine renting a fully furnished flat except for very short time stays. Otherwise, just to consider that hordes of previous tenants may have farted into the sofa, not to speak of activities that are even less desirous to consider having been done by people on the same spot that I might want to lay my head in the evening while watching TV. Urgh. In principle the same would apply for all fixtures and furnitures. If the landlord has or the previous tenant had a taste in baroque-ish chandeliers, why on earth should I burden myself with that monster? I just install whatever I like. ---
**Author:** ![PitJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9bcb4/32.png) [@PitJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PitJ)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2019, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713/179 "2019-01-21T10:29:09Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > Yeah, this. Everywhere I’ve ever lived you kept your shoes in your room. I don’t get this apparent phobia about shoes. And people own more than one pair, you know. So if you have roommates, everyone is supposed to leave every pair of shoes by the front door? Jeez, it would be nothing but shoes! We (Germans) also have a shoes-on policy but many people I know insist on even guests taking off theirs - some even provide felt Slippers - in order to protect their wooden floors. Ours are wood nicely laid out too but they are made to be stepped on, plus they’re nicer with a bit of “used look”. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2019, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713/180 "2019-01-21T11:38:43Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > That’s two different things: built-in closets are common in Spain for houses less than 50 years old; _walk-in_ closets are not. I’m not talking about walk-in closets, which is just a subset of closets. No one mandates a walk-in closet, but it would satisfy the closet requirement. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-housing-whats-with-all-the-doors-and-corridors/827713.md?page=10)