# European immigration debate **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 28, 2015, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-immigration-debate/729171 "2015-08-28T13:58:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-immigration-debate/729171/21 "2015-08-28T17:23:54Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > Actually it is not a small percentage at all, Germany has received about a third of the total number of refugees and way more than any other nation. It is a real political problem that the amount of responsibility that the different countries share is so imbalanced. Basically the top two or three nations when it comes to receiving absorb as much as the rest of the countries do together. > > Here’s the stats: [http://appsso.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/nui/show.do](http://appsso.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/nui/show.do) Your stats link doesn’t work since it depended on your browser state. And you should have known/specified that your statement only applies to the EU. Germany has received about a third of the total number of refugees arriving in the EU, and more than any other nation in the EU. Even ignoring the internally displaced the vast majority of refugees, eight times the total in Europe, are in Syria’s nearest neighbours, Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan: [Hans Rosling on YouTube: Where are the Syrian refugees?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_QrIapiNOw) ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-immigration-debate/729171/22 "2015-08-28T18:08:19Z")
> [@naita](#): > > Your stats link doesn’t work since it depended on your browser state. And you should have known/specified that your statement only applies to the EU. Germany has received about a third of the total number of refugees arriving in the EU, and more than any other nation in the EU. > > Even ignoring the internally displaced the vast majority of refugees, eight times the total in Europe, are in Syria’s nearest neighbours, Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan: [Hans Rosling on YouTube: Where are the Syrian refugees?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_QrIapiNOw) Sorry, I was under the impression that we were discussing it from an EU perspective considering that the OP map only showed that part of the world. I don’t feel like I am under any obligation to expand on the subject and obviously I can’t know whether the link depends on “browser state”, if that is indeed the case. Either way the link simply shows the amount of asylum seeking refugees and what country they are applying in. The same stats are probably available elsewhere but once again, I’m simply chiming in trying to clear up what I can from my limited perspective, I have no wish to write a thesis on it. ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-immigration-debate/729171/23 "2015-08-28T18:11:58Z")
> [@Grim\_Render](#): > > Its bull, and it should be obvious that its bull. > > While rates in Alaska are very high, compare with Canada, Norway, Finland, Iceland etc. > > I seem to remember a debate about the notion that all the “stranger rapes” in Norway was committed by immigrants. I remember calculation that even if this was correct, immigrants in Norway would still have a lower rate of rapes than Americans. That’s interesting. I was actually for some reason contemplating the culture surrounding women and sex in the US after watching a few news pieces on it. There was some outrage against fraternity kids chanting “No means yes. Yes means anal.” and other similarly unpleasant stuff, as well as reports I have been reading about misogyny in different workplaces etc. It’s quite disturbing. I was obviously aware that there’s a big problem with the view of women among the middle eastern and african cultures (compared to my own egalitarian or feminist view, obviously I am biased) but before this I was unaware that the US had such a harsh climate on this issue. ---
**Author:** ![ryu238](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/cdc98d/32.png) [@ryu238](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryu238)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-immigration-debate/729171/24 "2015-08-28T18:17:32Z")
The problem is that we don’t get info on the ethnicity: [Sweden: Rape Capital of the West :: Gatestone Institute](http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5195/sweden-rape) > [@](#): > > In 1975, the Swedish parliament unanimously decided to change the former homogeneous Sweden into a multicultural country. Forty years later the dramatic consequences of this experiment emerge: violent crime has increased by 300%. > > If one looks at the number of rapes, however, the increase is even worse. In 1975, 421 rapes were reported to the police; in 2014, it was 6,620. That is an increase of 1,472%. > > Sweden is now number two on the global list of rape countries. According to a survey from 2010, Sweden, with 53.2 rapes per 100,000 inhabitants, is surpassed only by tiny Lesotho in Southern Africa, with 91.6 rapes per 100,000 inhabitants. > > Etc… They link to this article: [http://www.d-intl.com/2014/05/07/muslimer-kraftigt-overrepresenterade-i-valdtaktsbrott/](http://www.d-intl.com/2014/05/07/muslimer-kraftigt-overrepresenterade-i-valdtaktsbrott/) But it’s in Swedish. Can anybody read it? ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-immigration-debate/729171/25 "2015-08-28T18:28:28Z")
> [@ryu238](#): > > [Magazine d'informations et actualités sur la technologie - Do Not Link !](http://www.donotlink.com/ghj3) > Someone made this picture to attack immigrants heading into Europe…is there any truth to it? Of course there’s truth to it. It’s absolutely trivial to observe. There’s a migration path into Europe which goes through the Balkans. Turkey -\> Greece -\> Macedonia -\> Serbia -\> Hungary -\> Austria -\> Germany and some times on to Scandinavia or the UK. None of those countries are in a state of war. The error comes from labelling the migrants as refugees. Once you leave a safe country, you’re no longer a refugee, you are a migrant. For migrants none of the countries before Germany are especially attractive to migrate to (Macedonia is quite nice actually, but so small), and Austria is quite safe and wealthy too of course. Several of the countries are scrambling to put up walls and fences other barriers. Notable Hungary, but it’s actually quite easy to come through the Hungarian fence; all you have to do is register yourself and have a fingerprint scan. Except that would leave you stranded in Hungary and few of the migrants are interested in this. So they bypass illegally. ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-immigration-debate/729171/26 "2015-08-28T18:37:19Z")
> [@ryu238](#): > > The problem is that we don’t get info on the ethnicity: [Sweden: Rape Capital of the West :: Gatestone Institute](http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5195/sweden-rape) > > They link to this article: [http://www.d-intl.com/2014/05/07/muslimer-kraftigt-overrepresenterade-i-valdtaktsbrott/](http://www.d-intl.com/2014/05/07/muslimer-kraftigt-overrepresenterade-i-valdtaktsbrott/) > But it’s in Swedish. Can anybody read it? Yes I read it. It’s a standard propaganda piece claiming that violent crimes such as murder and rape has skyrocketed over the last 40 years and that it is the fault of immigrants, mainly africans and muslims. The website itself, Dispatch International, is an anti-islam organization and has been classified as racist by the anti-racist organization Expo. The article goes on to defend a man who was convicted of hate speech and finishes up by encouraging those who are interested to know more to buy an obviously anti-islam book that claims to tell the truth about Islam and rape, written by the chief editor of this website. I’m now assuming that your intentions are not coming from a place of intellectual integrity, since all your sources are blatantly biased anti-muslim and/or racist. If you were actually interested in the truth I don’t think you would be going to these sources, so apparently you have another agenda. ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Render](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@Grim\_Render](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Render)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-immigration-debate/729171/27 "2015-08-28T18:39:37Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > That’s interesting. I was actually for some reason contemplating the culture surrounding women and sex in the US after watching a few news pieces on it. There was some outrage against fraternity kids chanting “No means yes. Yes means anal.” and other similarly unpleasant stuff, as well as reports I have been reading about misogyny in different workplaces etc. It’s quite disturbing. I was obviously aware that there’s a big problem with the view of women among the middle eastern and african cultures (compared to my own egalitarian or feminist view, obviously I am biased) but before this I was unaware that the US had such a harsh climate on this issue. That is not entirely untrue. However, the specific calculation I mentioned was done more as an exercise in taking some of the outrageous numbers presented as real by an anti-immigration nut bag, and taking them to their logical conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-immigration-debate/729171/28 "2015-08-28T18:44:09Z")
> [@Grim\_Render](#): > > That is not entirely untrue. However, the specific calculation I mentioned was done more as an exercise in taking some of the outrageous numbers presented as real by an anti-immigration nut bag, and taking them to their logical conclusion. Sorry, didn’t mean to misrepresent or hijack anything, I was just a bit sad and surprised to have this realization. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-immigration-debate/729171/29 "2015-08-28T18:53:32Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > That’s interesting. I was actually for some reason contemplating the culture surrounding women and sex in the US after watching a few news pieces on it. There was some outrage against fraternity kids chanting “No means yes. Yes means anal.” and other similarly unpleasant stuff, as well as reports I have been reading about misogyny in different workplaces etc. It’s quite disturbing. I was obviously aware that there’s a big problem with the view of women among the middle eastern and african cultures (compared to my own egalitarian or feminist view, obviously I am biased) but before this I was unaware that the US had such a harsh climate on this issue. FTR, the US seems to be in the middle of the pack wrt [rapers per 100k](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics). As far as the stranger verse known rapist thingy, from that cite (this is wrt the US): > [@](#): > > Source: Current or former intimate partner Another relative Friend or acquaintance Stranger > US Bureau of Justice statistics 26% 7% 38% 26% > Australian government statistics[280] 56% 10% 27% 8% > UK Home Office (for comparison)[281] 45.4% 13.9% 29.6% 11% ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Render](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@Grim\_Render](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Render)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-immigration-debate/729171/30 "2015-08-28T18:56:45Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > Sorry, didn’t mean to misrepresent or hijack anything, I was just a bit sad and surprised to have this realization. OK I looked up the numbers again and while this involves some fairly crude assumptions, it does appear to be true. Using Washington DC and Oslo as comparisons, as they seem to have surprisingly even populations, and assuming that the US term “forcible rape” and the Norwegian term “assault rape” is roughly equivalent… And further assuming that all assault rapes in Oslo were committed by immigrants, that would mean immigrants in Oslo have a rape rate of about 9 per 100 000. The rate in Washington DC is reported as 37 per 100 000, so about 4x that. The numbers even out a bit more if we look at all types of rape, although US prison rapes were excluded from that comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-immigration-debate/729171/31 "2015-08-28T19:05:25Z")
> [@Grim\_Render](#): > > OK I looked up the numbers again and while this involves some fairly crude assumptions, it does appear to be true. Using Washington DC and Oslo as comparisons, as they seem to have surprisingly even populations, and assuming that the US term “forcible rape” and the Norwegian term “assault rape” is roughly equivalent… > > And further assuming that all assault rapes in Oslo were committed by immigrants, that would mean immigrants in Oslo have a rape rate of about 9 per 100 000. The rate in Washington DC is reported as 37 per 100 000, so about 4x that. > > The numbers even out a bit more if we look at all types of rape, although US prison rapes were excluded from that comparison. Why do you think that is? ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Render](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@Grim\_Render](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Render)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-immigration-debate/729171/32 "2015-08-28T19:10:53Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > Why do you think that is? To be honest, I would not be surprised to find that the incidence of assault rapes is lower in Norway, while other kinds are fairly even. Although I would be surprised if the number is as low as zero among ethnic Norwegians. A number of factors that lead to violent crime is lower in Norway, such as large economic divides, racial tensions, confrontational conflict solving, and I believe there is less of a tendency to leave the mentally ill to their own devices. Violent crime in general is lower, so I wouldn’t be surprised that this type is also lower. I am surprised that the rates among immigrants tend towards the Norwegian level so quickly though. ---
**Author:** ![ryu238](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/cdc98d/32.png) [@ryu238](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryu238)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-immigration-debate/729171/33 "2015-08-28T19:46:09Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > Yes I read it. It’s a standard propaganda piece claiming that violent crimes such as murder and rape has skyrocketed over the last 40 years and that it is the fault of immigrants, mainly africans and muslims. The website itself, Dispatch International, is an anti-islam organization and has been classified as racist by the anti-racist organization Expo. The article goes on to defend a man who was convicted of hate speech and finishes up by encouraging those who are interested to know more to buy an obviously anti-islam book that claims to tell the truth about Islam and rape, written by the chief editor of this website. > > I’m now assuming that your intentions are not coming from a place of intellectual integrity, since all your sources are blatantly biased anti-muslim and/or racist. If you were actually interested in the truth I don’t think you would be going to these sources, so apparently you have another agenda. …isn’t this an ad hominem argument? I mean you say the source is racist, and that it’s enough to say it’s wrong without showing why. I want to see both sides of the argument. Otherwise this becomes an echo chamber. ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-immigration-debate/729171/34 "2015-08-28T19:52:10Z")
> [@ryu238](#): > > …isn’t this an ad hominem argument? How so? I simply state that I think your intention is not coming from a place of intellectual integrity. You keep posting what is very obviously racist and anti-immigration propaganda, then go “Oh could this really be true?”. Apparently this is a pattern, judging by your other two posts. I could of course be wrong, I’m only guessing based on the evidence so far and I’ll gladly give you the benefit of doubt. How would you describe your agenda and how come your sources are all within the nazi, racist and anti-islam spectrum? ---
**Author:** ![ryu238](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/cdc98d/32.png) [@ryu238](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryu238)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-immigration-debate/729171/35 "2015-08-28T19:54:47Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > How so? I simply state that I think your intention is not coming from a place of intellectual integrity. You keep posting what is very obviously racist and anti-immigration propaganda, then go “Oh could this really be true?”. Apparently this is a pattern, judging by your other two posts. > > I could of course be wrong, I’m only guessing based on the evidence so far and I’ll gladly give you the benefit of doubt. How would you describe your agenda and how come your sources are all within the nazi, racist and anti-islam spectrum? I want to debunk them but I don’t know how…I put links to provide context. ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-immigration-debate/729171/36 "2015-08-28T20:06:18Z")
> [@ryu238](#): > > I want to debunk them but I don’t know how…I put links to provide context. Well you can either question their intent, their arguments or their sources. But why bother? They’re not going to change their mind because they are stuck in a narrative where they get their self-worth and identity from vilifying other ethnic groups. You will never win an argument with logic or reason because they do not base their arguments on that, they only try to use (flawed) arguments and bad sources to justify their emotional position. It’s based on fear and hatred and has very little to do with any facts. ---
**Author:** ![ryu238](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/cdc98d/32.png) [@ryu238](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryu238)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-immigration-debate/729171/37 "2015-08-28T21:01:44Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Ok, well then that is incorrect. Many of the states that border the EU don’t have open immigration policies. Even some of the EU states don’t have as open of policies and set strict limits on the numbers of people able to seek asylum. A lot of the folks fleeing their various war torn states are trying to gain asylum in EU states that DO have open immigration policies (such as Germany). Many are being stopped in those border states that aren’t even allowing them to pass through. The chart you linked to ignores the reality of whether or not states allow immigration, asylum or even people to pass through in many cases, so can be dismissed as horseshit. > > Was there anything else you wanted to talk about on this subject? You know what comment I got when I explained this > [@](#): > > ol @ “Turkey doesn’t have an open immigration policy.” > also lol @ “the entry points of Italy and Greece aren’t being forced to allow unlimited numbers of these people within their borders.” > All of this SJW crap is just a gigantic masturbatory fetishization of colored people as forever victims of everything. Off course he doesn’t provide evidence… ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-immigration-debate/729171/38 "2015-08-28T22:05:33Z")
You know, I don’t particularly like the idea of you using this place as a personal resource for your little mission to debunk a bunch of white supremacists. If you are so clearly unequipped to do the job yourself then maybe you should just leave it and do something else with your time. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-immigration-debate/729171/39 "2015-08-28T22:52:11Z")
[QUOTE=ryu238] Off course he doesn’t provide evidence… [/QUOTE] Well then, why bother with someone who is an obvious fuckwit? Especially with something that takes literally 5 seconds to look up on a google search, wrt [Turkey](http://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/turkey-transformation-emigration-immigration) (and about that long for the other things)? > [@](#): > > Today, officially sanctioned immigration into Turkey has for all intent and purposes dropped to a trickle. Since the early 1990s, however, Turkey has witnessed a new form of irregular immigration involving nationals of neighboring countries, EU nationals, and transit migrants. Turkey allows nationals of Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Iran, Moldova, Ukraine, Russia, and the Central Asian republics to enter the country quite freely either without visas or with visas that can easily be obtained at airports and other entry points. A large number of these people are involved in small-scale trade. However, some overstay their visas and illegally work as household help, commercial sex workers, and laborers, especially on construction sites and in the tourism sector. > > It is very difficult to estimate the numbers of such irregular immigrants in Turkey. However, figures ranging from 150,000 to one million are often cited. To these groups must be added trafficked people, particularly women. These are people who have either been coerced or deceived into traveling to Turkey for commercial sex work, and remain in Turkey against their wishes. There is also an increasing number of EU member-state nationals engaged in professional activities who are settling in Turkey, particularly in Istanbul, as well as European retirees in some of the Mediterranean resorts. They, too, constitute a relatively new phenomenon in terms of immigration into Turkey, and their numbers are estimated at 100,000-120,000. > > Lastly, since the second half of the 1990s, the number of irregular migrants using Turkey as a transit route to Europe has grown. These people are mostly nationals of neighboring countries in the Middle East such as Iraq, Iran, and Syria, as well as Afghanistan and Pakistan. lol@fuckwitandallthat. Seriously, either you are being disingenuous in this ‘debate’ or you are swayed by some idiot who is clueless about what s/he is talking about, even for the basics. The folks fleeing the area and piling up in the border nations trying to get into EU countries with open immigration policies has, you know, been in the news and all…A LOT. It shouldn’t be surprising to anyone who has been paying any sort of attention…unlike your nameless and clueless friend there. At any rate, good luck with your supposed attempt to debunk idiots. Based on my own history of trying to do so with 9/11 Truther idiots I can tell you…it’s taking longer than I thought it would, and longer than it should. If you are serious about trying to debunk such things then my advice is to simply educate yourself on what’s going on…it’s easy enough. A couple of Google searches and a few minutes of reading can debunk what you’ve shown so far, at least to anyone with 2 or 3 working brain cells. ---
**Author:** ![ryu238](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/cdc98d/32.png) [@ryu238](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryu238)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-immigration-debate/729171/40 "2015-08-28T23:31:48Z")
Thanks xt. And yeah, I often don’t know where to look sometimes. I did find more info on italy: [Harsh Immigration Law Passed in Italy - European Roma Rights Centre](http://www.errc.org/article/harsh-immigration-law-passed-in-italy/1598) > [@](#): > > law, introducing criminal sanctions for persons caught illegally entering the country or who return after being expelled. Under the new law, an immigrant who is stopped without a residence permit will be accompanied to the border and expelled immediately. Immigrants are also subject to arrest and detention of six to twelve months, to be followed by immediate deportation, if caught attempting to re-enter Italy before the expiry of a re-entry ban. A second offence is punishable by up to four years imprisonment. The permit for residence of immigrants has been strictly linked to a work contract. Also under the new law, the time limit for seclusion in detention centres whilst waiting for extradition has been extended from thirty days to sixty days and asylum seekers will be placed in detention while awaiting asylum review, in contravention of Article 5 of the European Convention on Human Rights which states, “Everyone has the right to liberty and security of person.” All foreigners applying for a residence permit will be fingerprinted. The law, initially proposed by Mr Gianfranco Fini of the National Alliance (AN – a neo-fascist party) and Mr Umberto Bossi of the Lega Nord (LN – a separatist party), extremist members of Italy’s governing coalition, replaces the former “Turco-Napolitano” immigration law. The new law was passed despite protest by members of Italy’s Romani community, along with other immigrant and minority groups. On September 16, 2002, the Italian national daily newspaper La Repubblica reported that, in response to accusations that fingerprinting of immigrants as required by the Bossi-Fini Law was overly harsh, Mr Giancarlo Gentilini, the Mayor of Treviso, stated “What’s the problem? I think we should take prints of their feet and noses too.” Greece is hardly better: [http://greece.greekreporter.com/2014/11/24/syrian-refugees-protest-in-greece-over-harsh-living-conditions/](http://greece.greekreporter.com/2014/11/24/syrian-refugees-protest-in-greece-over-harsh-living-conditions/) Yeah, with stuff like this Germany is the best option by far if you wanna avoid war. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-immigration-debate/729171.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-immigration-debate/729171.md?page=3)