# European pagan rituals in America **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 23, 2013, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-pagan-rituals-in-america/661698 "2013-06-23T11:11:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-pagan-rituals-in-america/661698/1 "2013-06-23T11:11:15Z")
Today is Midsummer’s Day. In Denmark people come together to make a big bonfire on a beach on the forest or someplace, and dance around and sing songs and stuff. And burn witches. Or these days only effigies of witches are burnt. ☹ The old times were more fun. Anyway, clearly a pagan ritual. In other European countries other pagan rituals and traditions remains ([Europe’s Wild Men](http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2013/04/europes-wild-men/shea-text)). Have none of those rituals and traditions survived the immigration of Europeans to America? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-pagan-rituals-in-america/661698/2 "2013-06-23T11:49:59Z")
Sure they have. Ever heard of Halloween? Or for that matter, Christmas? ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-pagan-rituals-in-america/661698/3 "2013-06-23T12:06:42Z")
Easter? For typical little American children, there are Christian superpowers (trinity, saints, angels) and the Easter Bunny, and they all get worshipped. Looks pagan to me, though I’m a bit sketchy on the historical European roots. Typical dopers probably stopped worshiping all of them on the way to adulthood (and if I’m the one to burst anybody’s bubble, of course I’m sorry), so the pagan aspect of it per se isn’t the thing that ends. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-pagan-rituals-in-america/661698/4 "2013-06-23T12:20:48Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > Easter? For typical little American children, there are Christian superpowers (trinity, saints, angels) and the Easter Bunny, and they all get worshipped. Looks pagan to me, though I’m a bit sketchy on the historical European roots. There’s the eggs too; bunnies and eggs are both fertility symbols, for obvious reasons. Funny thing is as a kid even in a Christian family I had no idea at all it was a religious occasion or had anything to do with Christianity. It was all about eggs, bunnies, candy, and baskets full of plastic grass. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-pagan-rituals-in-america/661698/5 "2013-06-23T12:40:27Z")
I almost feel like I’m being whooshed. I mean, paganism is everywhere in American society. The days of the week and the months of the year are pagan. The cross is pagan. Wedding rings and rituals are pagan. Funeral rituals are pagan. Even the Jesus fish is pagan. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-pagan-rituals-in-america/661698/6 "2013-06-23T12:57:48Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Sure they have. Ever heard of Halloween? Or for that matter, Christmas? In most respects, Halloween, as celebrated in the US for the last several decades, is a (fairly recent) American invention, not an import from Europe. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-pagan-rituals-in-america/661698/7 "2013-06-23T12:58:20Z")
> [@](#): > > The old times were more fun. Not for the witches. 😃 My favorite pagan tradition in modern US life is Thanksgiving. It’s an amazingly complicated ritual animal sacrifice with symbolic side dish sacrifices. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-pagan-rituals-in-america/661698/8 "2013-06-23T13:16:36Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I almost feel like I’m being whooshed. I mean, paganism is everywhere in American society. The days of the week and the months of the year are pagan. The cross is pagan. Wedding rings and rituals are pagan. Funeral rituals are pagan. Even the Jesus fish is pagan. They are only pagan when they are alive and imbued with some meaning by those using them. I doubt many people are thinking about Thor when they say Thursday or Janus on January. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-pagan-rituals-in-america/661698/9 "2013-06-23T13:36:24Z")
Are the Danes dancing around the fires are expressly honoring the old gods? And if so, have they been doing so uninterrupted since the Iron Age? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-pagan-rituals-in-america/661698/10 "2013-06-23T13:42:49Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > They are only pagan when they are alive and imbued with some meaning by those using them. I doubt many people are thinking about Thor when they say Thursday or Janus on January. Do people really think mistletoe is a magical plant? No. But they hang it up in their doorway and kiss underneath it anyway. Rituals tend to be meaningless like this. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-pagan-rituals-in-america/661698/11 "2013-06-23T13:57:03Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Are the Danes dancing around the fires are expressly honoring the old gods? And if so, have they been doing so uninterrupted since the Iron Age? The tradition is properly uninterrupted since the Iron Age. Christianity put on a veneer of Christianity on top, so its actually called Saint Johannes Day (since he was also supposed to have been born on this day). But beyond the name there is not much Christianity in it. They’re not in general honoring the old gods, more a worship of summer, warmth, light, power of nature and such. So there are degrees of involvement; it doesn’t quite amount to worship, however it’s not mere empty rituals either. The same with Winter Solstice, Christmas, in Scandinavia. It has a very pagan feel to it; the darkness and the cold, the light feasts leading up to it, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-pagan-rituals-in-america/661698/12 "2013-06-23T14:26:16Z")
Based on my own experiences, Christmas in the U.S. has a very pagan feel to it as well. (Of course, not being a Christian or a resident of a Christian country, I sometimes have difficulty differentiating Christianity from other forms of paganism). ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-pagan-rituals-in-america/661698/13 "2013-06-23T16:56:12Z")
Moved to GQ from Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-pagan-rituals-in-america/661698/14 "2013-06-23T17:39:27Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Der Trihs** : > > Funny thing is as a kid even in a Christian family I had no idea at all it was a religious occasion or had anything to do with Christianity. It was all about eggs, bunnies, candy, and baskets full of plastic grass. Have you ever actually met any practicing Christian? Because anyone raised in a practicing Christian household could not possibly miss the religious significance of Easter. I mean, it’s only the single most important holiday in the Christian calendar. Maybe your family described themselves as Christian, but I’d bet that that self-description was the only connection between your family and the religion. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-pagan-rituals-in-america/661698/15 "2013-06-23T17:53:12Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > In most respects, Halloween, as celebrated in the US for the last several decades, is a (fairly recent) American invention, not an import from Europe. Halloween is a purely Christian holiday. The fact that it fell on the same day as an ancient Celtic festival is just a coincidence. > **[Surprise: Halloween's Not a Pagan FestivalbrAfter All](https://www.beliefnet.com/faiths/catholic/2000/10/surprise-halloweens-not-a-pagan-festivalafter-all.aspx)** > > The holiday and its customs are completely Christian, and some are uniquely American. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-pagan-rituals-in-america/661698/16 "2013-06-23T18:06:30Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Based on my own experiences, Christmas in the U.S. has a very pagan feel to it as well. It’s a festival of lights in the part of the year when the sun begins to come back to the northern temperate zones. It probably doesn’t mean as much to someone as far south as you are, but there’s a reason Hanukkah has candles and it isn’t just to celebrate some ancient resistance movement. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-pagan-rituals-in-america/661698/17 "2013-06-23T18:18:42Z")
> [@Doug\_K](#): > > Halloween is a purely Christian holiday. The fact that it fell on the same day as an ancient Celtic festival is just a coincidence. > > [http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Catholic/2000/10/Surprise-Halloweens-Not-A-Pagan-Festivalafter-All.aspx](http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Catholic/2000/10/Surprise-Halloweens-Not-A-Pagan-Festivalafter-All.aspx) Nonsense. That’s just special pleading on the part of a Catholic site to distance the day from its pagan origins. Christianity has had a long history of co-opting days of significance in paganism to its own festivals. The name of the day may be Christian in origin, but many of the customs go back to Samhain or similar festivals. ---
**Author:** ![Glazer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a88e57/32.png) [@Glazer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glazer)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-pagan-rituals-in-america/661698/18 "2013-06-23T20:07:45Z")
Atlanta has a large population of pagans of all stripes. I’m sure most big cities do as well. It’s not mainstream by any means but it’s there and not hard to find. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-pagan-rituals-in-america/661698/19 "2013-06-23T20:26:54Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Even the Jesus fish is pagan. Really? Fight my ignorance here: I thought it came from the classical Greek ichthos which was a sort of acronym for _Iesus Christos Theios_ which happened to be the Greek for fish. ---
**Author:** ![phaemon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/977dab/32.png) [@phaemon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phaemon)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-pagan-rituals-in-america/661698/20 "2013-06-23T20:32:21Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Nonsense. That’s just special pleading on the part of a Catholic site to distance the day from its pagan origins. Nope, I’m pretty sure that Halloween doesn’t really fall on the same day as an ancient Celtic festival, mainly because I don’t think the ancient Celts used the Gregorian calendar. > [@](#): > > Christianity has had a long history of co-opting days of significance in paganism to its own festivals. The name of the day may be Christian in origin, but many of the customs go back to Samhain or similar festivals. Yeah, those wacky Pagans who became Christians, forcing themselves to keep celebrating their own festivals. The bastards. What exactly _is_ Pagan anyway? So far we seem to have included Roman religion, Roman custom, Norse Gods, Norse custom, Celtic custom, and any symbol ever used by anyone anywhere ever. 😃 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/european-pagan-rituals-in-america/661698.md?page=2)