# Europeans, cowboys and fiction about the 19th century **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 9, 2013, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europeans-cowboys-and-fiction-about-the-19th-century/673524 "2013-11-09T22:08:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europeans-cowboys-and-fiction-about-the-19th-century/673524/21 "2013-11-15T10:33:29Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > Some popular 19th century plots, summarized in a few words: > > - Should I marry this nice guy/gal who’s slightly above/below my station in life? (…several hundred pages later…) Yes, love conquers all minor obstacles! > - Oh no, I’m in some financial trouble. (…several hundred pages later…) Yay, a rich benefactor gave/bequeathed me some money, so I’m saved! > - My rich relative is P.O.'d at me. (…several hundred pages later…) Yay, he had a change of heart and he forgives me! I don’t know if what you wrote if correct for British litterature, but for French litterature, it will rather be something like that : - Should I marry this nice guy/gal who’s slightly above/below my station in life? (…several hundred pages later…) No, you’re going to die from consumption, alone, heartbroken. - Oh no, I’m in some financial trouble. (…several hundred pages later…) No, you’re going to die from consumption, alone, in misery. - My rich relative is P.O.'d at me. (…several hundred pages later…) No, you’re going to die from consumption, alone, in jail. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europeans-cowboys-and-fiction-about-the-19th-century/673524/22 "2013-11-15T10:44:42Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > So, what genres did Jane Austen, Emily Bronte, Hugo and Dickens write in? For Jules Verne, it’s sci-fi but for the other authors, what is it? Is it simply called “literary fiction”, for all of that term’s imprecision? It wasn’t really historical when they wrote it, especially Bronte and Austen. Austen wrote romance. Dickens, maybe social commentary? Bronte, well, Wuthering Heights in a classic Victorian Gothic story, which is a genre we haven’t touched upon. Dracula, Frankenstein, Jekyll and Hyde… ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europeans-cowboys-and-fiction-about-the-19th-century/673524/23 "2013-11-15T15:42:51Z")
Don’t forget the swashbucklers: Alexandre Dumas, Rafael Sabatini, Baroness Orczy. Just substitute swords for six-guns. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2013, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europeans-cowboys-and-fiction-about-the-19th-century/673524/24 "2013-11-16T01:41:16Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I don’t know if what you wrote if correct for British litterature, but for French litterature, it will rather be something like that : > > - Should I marry this nice guy/gal who’s slightly above/below my station in life? (…several hundred pages later…) No, you’re going to die from consumption, alone, heartbroken. > - Oh no, I’m in some financial trouble. (…several hundred pages later…) No, you’re going to die from consumption, alone, in misery. > - My rich relative is P.O.'d at me. (…several hundred pages later…) No, you’re going to die from consumption, alone, in jail. I certainly don’t know much about French literature of the 19th century. I’ve read dozens of British books of the era in the past few years, but only two French ones: **Les Miserables** and **Germinal**. Les Miserables is full of those types of subplots: Marius quarrels with his financially supporting grandfather, Marius frets over being able to marry Cosette, and it has more kindly benefactors bailing people out of trouble than you can shake a stick at. It definitely had a real 19th century feel to it. On the other hand, Germinal felt much more like a 20th century novel to me: no inheritances, no mystery benefactors, no romance (although there’s plenty of sex and affection) and a downbeat ending. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2013, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europeans-cowboys-and-fiction-about-the-19th-century/673524/25 "2013-11-16T08:19:23Z")
The very best example of 19th-century-setting historical fiction from a British viewpoint is [the Flashman papers](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Flashman_Papers) by George MacDonald Fraser. In my opinion some of the finest fiction of all time. You can learn a lot about actual history from those books, too - aside from the insertion of Flashman into the stories, the historical events are entirely real and fascinating. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2013, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europeans-cowboys-and-fiction-about-the-19th-century/673524/26 "2013-11-16T08:51:17Z")
The German equivalent of Westerns: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heimatfilm](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heimatfilm) ---
**Author:** ![Daylate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9dc877/32.png) [@Daylate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daylate)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2013, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europeans-cowboys-and-fiction-about-the-19th-century/673524/27 "2013-11-16T17:13:51Z")
> [@](#): > > The very best example of 19th-century-setting historical fiction from a British viewpoint is the Flashman papers by George MacDonald Fraser. In my opinion some of the finest fiction of all time. You can learn a lot about actual history from those books, too - aside from the insertion of Flashman into the stories, the historical events are entirely real and fascinating. A bit of advice. Do NOT ignore the footnotes that are scattered liberally thru the books. These contain a whole lot of the actual history, and make the books a lot more fun. My son says that in a Flashman novel two bookmarks are needed. One for the story, and one for the back of the book where the footnotes are written. ---
**Author:** ![stamruleboswell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/57b2e6/32.png) [@stamruleboswell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stamruleboswell)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2013, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europeans-cowboys-and-fiction-about-the-19th-century/673524/28 "2013-11-16T21:58:38Z")
The European went into a _hibernation_ during this time in Literature, 19th century. All of literary society was mad with a tremendous feeling of expansion and romantic realism. The hero of Ibsen’s The Doll House; The Master Builder; and especially Peer Gynt. Most of all one ought to read Faust by Johanne Wolfgang von Goethe. The progressive realization of the individual human being’s intellectual capacity and ability to alter society would reach a pinnacle with Hegel’s Phenomenology of Mind. Although this is not a work of literature, it’s scope and range of emotion tend to defy the librarian’s ability to categorize. ---
**Author:** ![stamruleboswell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/57b2e6/32.png) [@stamruleboswell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stamruleboswell)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2013, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europeans-cowboys-and-fiction-about-the-19th-century/673524/29 "2013-11-16T21:59:57Z")
I absolutely adore Zola. Terese Raquin, Mama, &c… are some great examples. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europeans-cowboys-and-fiction-about-the-19th-century/673524.md?page=1)