# Europe's anti-Semitism crisis **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 25, 2015, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130 "2015-07-25T02:50:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/181 "2015-07-28T10:24:37Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > uh huh. Are you listening to yourself? They’re going to Syria to join ISIS. Seriously? They could create chaos anywhere without the religious bullshit that comes with ISIS. They’re running around cutting off heads and setting people on fire and it’s driven by Islam. It is not “driven by Islam.” The rise, first of al Qaida and then of ISIS, among the disaffected has been captured by extremists within Islam, just a the rise of the Nazis, the KKK, the Aryan Nation, and others have been captured by extremists within Christianity. You persistently ignore every event and condition that plays a part in any problem in order to chant “Islam, Islam, Islam.” > [@Magiver](#): > > Nobody in Europe is mistreating immigrants any worse than what immigrants suffered in the US so your reasons for it don’t make sense. You’re making excuses. No. You are denying reality. Immigrants in Europe have often been treated the way that blacks have been treated in the U.S., often with similar results. (And in the U.S., the nativists have often precluded immigrant riots by attacking the immigrants, (and blacks), and recruited the immigrants to help attack blacks, so the dynamics have differed. Those are not excuses, they are history. > [@Magiver](#): > > It doesn’t matter what percentage you pull from the dark side of the moon, the end result is that the radical end of the Islamic spectrum is extremely violent. Unless the religion is altered this will not change. It does, however, matter, that you are utterly unable to distinguish between Islam and its most radical elements, always choosing to lump them together in a senseless bundling that prevents any serious discussion of how to meet the extremists, because you always want to lump them in with everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/182 "2015-07-28T10:27:47Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > I guess insisting that there are no Muslims in France is as good way to deny France’s problem with Muslims attacking Jews as any of the others that have been tried. I guess that twisting other posters’ remarks to pretend they have said something utterly different than what they actually said is as good a way to keep the hate going without any serious discussion of the problem as any. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/183 "2015-07-28T10:37:34Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > If anyone has further pointers (which _don’t_ involve throwing the evil Machumetans into the sea and choking their womenfolk with the guts of their infants, **Hab.** Just pre-emptively throwing that out there) It’s Muslims physically attacking Jews, not the other way around. Try to keep up. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/184 "2015-07-28T10:39:39Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > So let me see if I understand you correctly. These kids are mistreated by the “real” French. So they get pissed. And then they go and beat up/kill Jews. > > Amazing logic there. Having watched this occur throughout the early part of the 20th century in the U.S., I find it odd that you do not recognize the phenomenon. People who are disaffected and feel that their livelihoods are threatened look for easy answers to those problem. They are easily led by anyone who will provide an answer, often by pointing to outside groups who have no actual involvement in the problems. The people who provide these false “answers” are frequently associated with religious beliefs and frequently use religious markers to identify those who should be “blamed.” The KKK was a “Christian” group who selected Jews, Catholics, and blacks (using the U.S. fascination with purported race), to stir up the hatred. The Nazis, while often led by unbelievers, placed a great deal of emphasis of their Christianity in their propaganda and targeted Jews. Now, ISIS is targeting Jews. It is not logical in the sense that Kant could ever make the connection, but it has the weight of repeated human behavior behind it. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/185 "2015-07-28T10:48:44Z")
It’s also a completely fabricated explanation that ignores the fact that Islam since the early 1900s has increasingly adopted ant-Semitism as a core tenet of the religion, and that the French attacks don’t track economic downturns in any way. The worst periods have been in 2000, 2006, and right now – times of stable or improving economic conditions. If the problem had gotten severely worse around 2009 and started stabilizing in 2013 you might have a point. But evidence doesn’t matter when you’re acting as Islam’s lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![Hiker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hiker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiker)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/186 "2015-07-28T11:04:40Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > It’s also a completely fabricated explanation that ignores the fact that Islam since the early 1900s has increasingly adopted ant-Semitism as a core tenet of the religion, and that the French attacks don’t track economic downturns in any way. The worst periods have been in 2000, 2006, and right now – times of stable or improving economic conditions. If the problem had gotten severely worse around 2009 and started stabilizing in 2013 you might have a point. But evidence doesn’t matter when you’re acting as Islam’s lawyer. For all I know you have about 3 million Muslims over in the US. If the anti-semitic outbursts among French Muslims have everything to do with religion and nothing with the social climate in France, then why do we hear no reports of any such outbursts in the US? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/187 "2015-07-28T11:11:16Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > It’s Muslims physically attacking Jews, not the other way around. Try to keep up. Muslims happen to routinely get physically attacked and their mosques defaced, too (not exclusively by Jews, of course). Plenty of stupid to go around. Speaking of which, I looked a bit for the LDJ mentioned in your article about the Sarcelles demonstration (I’d never heard of the organization before) because some of the comments in the article made me go :dubious:, and it looks like they might be more problem than solution as well. Y’alls might know them as the [JDL](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Defense_League). On the surface our homegrown contingent - I have no idea what ties, if any, they have with the American organization or its founders ; or whether they just self-proclaim the same “brand” like random Muslim assholes claim Al Qaeda - look to be little more than street hooligans spoiling for a fight. They have been linked with a number of unprovoked assaults against Muslims (mostly in or around Paris and Lyon) and one pro-Palestinian author. Basically, when they’re not busy defending synagogues that are already protected by the cops, they seem to go around “avenging” this or that in Muslim neighbourhoods with axe handles. NOFX’s song “The 'Brews” springs to mind. Also their Facebook page features hideous grammar/syntax mistakes, and that’s simply unacceptable. The organization is classified as a terrorist group by the FBI and banned in the US and, possibly ironically, also in Israel since 1994 when [one of them opened fire at random Muslims in the mosque of Hebron](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_of_the_Patriarchs_massacre). So, there’s that. ETA : curiouser and curiouser - apparently the LDJ has also forged ties with Marine Le Pen (yes, that Le Pen). Strange bedfellows. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/188 "2015-07-28T11:22:51Z")
I’m glad you finally found an assault that counts. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/189 "2015-07-28T11:24:23Z")
> [@Hiker](#): > > For all I know you have about 3 million Muslims over in the US. If the anti-semitic outbursts among French Muslims have everything to do with religion and nothing with the social climate in France, then why do we hear no reports of any such outbursts in the US? Because we don’t have waves of jobless immigrants paid to theorize about the Jews all day, or Muslim-only areas where you can pretend you are in Algeria your whole life. The U.S. attracts the right people and France happily takes in the wrong ones. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/190 "2015-07-28T11:25:27Z")
Oooh, oooh, tell us about the no-go zones ! ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/191 "2015-07-28T11:32:55Z")
> **[What 10 Hours Of Walking In Paris As A Jew Looks Like](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/10-hours-walking-in-paris-as-a-jew-video_n_6697736)** > > What 10 Hours Of Walking In Paris As A Jew Looks Like > [@](#): > > In the video, Klein can be seen walking silently. Things got tense when he leaves popular tourist destinations and heads for public housing neighborhoods. There, Klein is met with remarks like “Jew,” “homo” and “Viva Palestine.” Some spit at him and others follow him. In his report for NRG, he wrote that a little boy asked his mother “What is he doing here Mommy? Doesn’t he know he will be killed?” ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/192 "2015-07-28T11:41:30Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Oooh, oooh, tell us about the no-go zones ! It’s true - [just look at this poor woman, thrown out of Mecca](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1189221/Pensioner-76-banned-Mecca-bingo-hall-country-arranged-trip-rival-venue.html). ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/193 "2015-07-28T11:42:37Z")
No comment, and no surprise. It’s a pretty sorry state of affairs. I’ll admit I did get a chuckle out of this bit though : > [@](#): > > “I have been [writing about anti-Semitism in France](http://www.thelocal.fr/20150216/video-paris-jewish-hidden-camera-fear-loathing) for years,” he told France’s The Local. “If I wanted, I could write an article about it every day - there’s always some kind of incident. I just had to see it for myself.” You know, it does seem like actually witnessing what you’ve been writing about for years at least the once would feel all journalist-y and shit 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Hiker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hiker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiker)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/194 "2015-07-28T11:46:11Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > Because we don’t have waves of jobless immigrants paid to theorize about the Jews all day, or Muslim-only areas where you can pretend you are in Algeria your whole life. The U.S. attracts the right people and France happily takes in the wrong ones. Last time I looked the violent crime rates in the US were about four times higher than in France. So I’ll take the “attracting the right people” with a grain of salt. But regardless: Wasn’t it your creed that all Muslims have made hostility towards Jews “a core tenet of the religion”? So now you agree that other factors than religion may be playing a part - such as the fact that many French with Maghrebic origins still live in communities which are pretty much separate from the rest of France? That would be a start. You other asstertion seems to be that social welfare in France incites violence. Here I disagree. It is a cliché that jobless youths immediately would get a job and become valuable members of society, as soon as you cut their welfare support. It does not work that way. However, I agree that getting these people into jobs would certainly help. I do not doubt that a jobless young Muslim, who considers himself an outcast from society is more likely to listen to the hate-preaching of radical islamists. France, like so many countries has failed to make the children of their immigrants feel a part of their society. But before we start pointing fingers we might want to acknowledge that in every western society we find some minority at the bottom end of the social ladder. Has anyone found a solution to that yet? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/195 "2015-07-28T12:12:50Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > You know, it does seem like actually witnessing what you’ve been writing about for years at least the once would feel all journalist-y and shit 😃 That’s exactly why crime journalists make sure to reach crime scenes \*before \*the murder. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/196 "2015-07-28T12:46:52Z")
Jews have been hated and chased out pretty much wherever they go. Maybe they should airlift Israel and drop it somewhere in Wisconsin. Real neighborly folks up there. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/197 "2015-07-28T12:48:06Z")
> [@gracefulfatsheba](#): > > Here is a good example of exactly what I’m talking about: > > [Evangelical Zionism rising, amidst anti-Semitism and threats to Israel, says Christian leader - The Jerusalem Post](http://www.jpost.com/Christian-News/While-threats-to-Israel-surge-so-does-Christian-Zionism-says-CUFIs-Hagee-380145) > > The behavior of the Christian fundies described in this article is exactly what I’m talking about. They consciously step up support for Israel’s disastrous security policies and reference the climate of antisemitism in Europe as a reason. In that interview Hagee does not “reference the climate of antisemitism in Europe” in stating support for Israel, much less justifying support for controversial Israeli policies on that basis. He does not mention hate crimes in Europe at all. ISIS, Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran’s nuclear ambitions are cited, but attacks in France and other European countries - nope. For instance: “When it comes to current pro-Israel causes, addressing the Iranian nuclear threat is at the forefront of the evangelical Christian community’s thinking.” The apparent fear of some that acknowledging the seriousness of anti-Semitic attacks in Europe will somehow let Israel “off the hook” for its disputed actions does not seem grounded in reality, or for that matter decency. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/198 "2015-07-28T12:55:50Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > That’s exactly why crime journalists make sure to reach crime scenes \*before \*the murder. Not sure if snark at me or snark at the guy :o. Please advise. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/199 "2015-07-28T13:04:47Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Jews have been hated and chased out pretty much wherever they go. Maybe they should airlift Israel and drop it somewhere in Wisconsin. Real neighborly folks up there. They need that like lock in kop. The overwhelming majority of Jews are lactose intolerant, and you want they should go live in a place whose only claim to notability is making all of the cheese ?! ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/200 "2015-07-28T13:46:46Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Not sure if snark at me or snark at the guy :o. Please advise. At you, I’m sorry to say. You don’t have to witness something to write about it - after all, Woodward and Bernstein weren’t actually at the Watergate Hotel. Also: > [@Kobal2](#): > > They need that like lock in kop. The overwhelming majority of Jews are lactose intolerant, and you want they should go live in a place whose only claim to notability is making all of the cheese ?! You’re confusing Jews with Chinese. A common mistake. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130.md?page=11)