# Europe's anti-Semitism crisis **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 25, 2015, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130 "2015-07-25T02:50:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/201 "2015-07-28T14:11:32Z")
Most of the human population is lactose intolerant, the mutation towards dairy products occurred amongst pale white Europeans who’s relationship with their farm animals was perhaps a bit closer than it should have been. ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/202 "2015-07-28T20:09:24Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > The vitriol comes from his statements about murderous Muslims. If he had written “Jews” or “Blacks” in his sentences instead of “Muslims” I’m pretty sure you (and plenty of others) would have noticed immediately what the issue was. > > \*“I think that Muslims’ obsession with battering Jews…” > > “Muslims of france are obsessed with the physical destruction of Jews” > > “Algerian Muslims despise Jews, have slaughtered them on numerous occasions, and are now bringing their religion to France” > > “the Algerian Muslims didn’t succeed in killing all of the Algerian Jews” > > “A Nazi salute is the popular gesture among Muslim youths across France” > > “The poor, poor Muslims. They might skin their knuckles punching a Jewish child in the face” > > “the narcissistic mind of Muslims who never forget an insult” > > “contemporary Islam adopting “death to the Jews” as the response to any and every problem” > > “their religion teaches an insane honor culture where murdering someone for making you “angry” is not just acceptable but encouraged” > > “Beating up Jews and firebombing synagogues is how you become more devoutly Muslim in the France of 2015. It has become the central ritual of the religion” > > “The presence of such cultures tracks murder rates fairly closely in the U.S. and elsewhere”\* > > If you somehow managed to read through his posts without noticing that there was a big issue in his discourse, maybe you should rethink what kind of discourse you find acceptable wrt Muslims and compare it with the kind of discourse you would tolerate wrt another group. The big issue I can see in his discourse is a parsimonious use of the partitive. Certainly, you are aware that often the partitive is understood. I would think a Mohammedan, of all people, would be acquainted with the well-known Jewish reputation for parsimony. His discourse didn’t upset me because I read his statements as having an understood “some” in front of Muslims. If he didn’t mean it that way, do you honestly think he’s arguing that ALL French Muslims assault Jews? That’s crazy, and demonstrably false. Your reaction would be like me freaking out over the statement, “Black drivers get pulled over by whites for DWB (Driving While Black).” I could raise the asinine argument, “Not ALL Blacks get pulled over and not ALL whites do the pulling over.” It’s asinine because it ignores the larger issue that not a single black SHOULD be pulled over by a single white solely for being black. But if someone believes DWB is a fake claim, ever, or believes Muslim violence against Jews is always a false claim, I can see why he or she would focus on, “It’s not ALL, it’s ONLY some.” Well, it shouldn’t be “ONLY some.” It should be zero. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/203 "2015-07-28T21:21:31Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > I would think a Mohammedan… 1950 called to ask for their already-antiquated term back. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/204 "2015-07-28T21:28:59Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > It’s also a completely fabricated explanation that ignores the fact that Islam since the early 1900s has increasingly adopted ant-Semitism as a core tenet of the religion, . . . Nah. There is no reason to believe that “Islam” (composed of a large body of people answering to no central authority), has adopted anything of the sort. You persist in claiming things about your imagined view of Islam that apply only to different groups within Islam and you do it without providing a single shred of evidence for your claim. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/205 "2015-07-28T21:29:54Z")
The fact that France is losing 3% of its Jewish population every year to people fleeing in terror is all the evidence necessary. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/206 "2015-07-28T21:33:53Z")
Maybe they didn’t flee in terror, maybe they left in a huff. Or in a blue funk. Maybe in a sentimental surge for a homeland. How do _you_ know? ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/207 "2015-07-28T21:45:14Z")
> [@andros](#): > > 1950 called to ask for their already-antiquated term back. You object to “Mohammedan” but not “the well-known Jewish reputation for parsimony”? I think you illustrate **Haberdash’s** point. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/208 "2015-07-28T21:47:53Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > The fact that France is losing 3% of its Jewish population every year to people fleeing in terror is all the evidence necessary. Not when you focus on reasons for it that are nothing more than the counterparts to the lies about the Jews. Few people are claiming that there is not a serious problem in France and that a significant aspect of it involves the children and grandchildrenof Muslim immigrants. You however, go beyond that, supported by nothing but your own hatred, to claim that it is Muslims and Islam that are the problem while pretending that the societal actions against the immigrants’ descendants play no part in the matter. As long as you make the silly argument that “Islam” is the problem, there will be no way to resolve the issue, because actual Muslims will not go out of their way to stop the problem if their very presence is going to get them falsely accused of mayhem. At this point, your rhetoric sounds much like the rhetoric of people such as William Pierce who felt that if they condemned black people in the harshest terms, they would eventually encourage a race war to eliminate black people in the U.S. You refuse to discuss the problems in a rational manner, insisting on simply condemning Islam, (with bullshit claims such as the one I have quoted in my previous post). We do need to stop the attacks on Jews–in France and elsewhere. Nothing you are doing is going to actually cause those attacks to stop. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/209 "2015-07-28T22:20:37Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > You object to “Mohammedan” but not “the well-known Jewish reputation for parsimony”? > > I think you illustrate **Haberdash’s** point. I’m sorry. You must have thought you were being very clever with that part. I thought it was pretty pedestrian, actually. “Yuk yuk yuk, Jews are stingy and Muslims hate Jews, get it?” Har. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/210 "2015-07-28T22:52:47Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > His discourse didn’t upset me because I read his statements as having an understood “some” in front of Muslims. If he didn’t mean it that way, do you honestly think he’s arguing that ALL French Muslims assault Jews? That’s crazy, and demonstrably false. What makes you think he meant “some”? I even mentioned that an only moderatly bigoted person would at some have stated that of course he didn’t mean all muslims. He didn’t even seize that opportunity to correct himself. In every single one of his posts he made general statements about Muslims. Not a single time he used “some”. In which of the 11 sentences I quoted do you read the slighest hint that he’s thinking of only “some” Muslims? What makes you believe that’s random? His post are drenching with hatred of Muslims. Once again imagine the same kind of accusations of malfeasance against Black people. Not even a single time using “some Black people”. Would you still assume he’s not a racist, just somone who poorly expressed himself? Very likely, the wording alone would make you jump, with or without “some”. No, he’s not arguing that all muslims have wet dreams about murdering Jews, even though it’s what he’s saying. He’s arguing that Islam and Muslims are iredeemably evil, because that’s the point he’s interested in making, Antisemitism in France isn’t what he’s interested in discussing. He’s interested in dissing Muslims. He never corrected his statements by adding “some” because he hates Muslims in general and a “some” would stay stuck in his throat, since it would be tantamount to admit that “most Muslims” or even “part of Muslims” aren’t the hateful savages he wants to believe they are. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/211 "2015-07-28T23:03:43Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > Your reaction would be like me freaking out over the statement, “Black drivers get pulled over by whites for DWB (Driving While Black).” . And after how many sentences like “Black people are [prejudiced statement]” would you begin to suspect that maybe the poster is a racist who despises Black people in general rather than a fair headed man who unfortunately forgot to preface his condemnations by “some”? ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/212 "2015-07-28T23:05:11Z")
Being a Muslim isn’t the same as being a black person no matter how many times you say it is. It’s an ideology that you choose, not something thrust upon you by an accident of your skin color at birth. It’s a lot closer to being a racist. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/213 "2015-07-28T23:27:36Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > Being a Muslim isn’t the same as being a black person no matter how many times you say it is. It’s an ideology that you choose, not something thrust upon you by an accident of your skin color at birth. It’s a lot closer to being a racist. I notice that despite the question being raised again, you still didn’t deem necessary to mention that the statements you made only apply to a small minority of French or Algerian Muslims, and that of course none of your attacks was intended to apply to the overwhelming majority of French Muslims, who obviously aren’t the kind of criminal-minded people you had in mind. But you still can apologize for the misunderstanding and vouch that you won’t again make such wide undeserved aspersions and will make sure to use “some”, of course ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/214 "2015-07-28T23:37:05Z")
A Muslim invented algebra, reason enough to hate them all. Personally, I mean, those of you who didn’t have to cheat your ass off to get a D-minus can be more forgiving. And no doubt even **Haberdasher** has heard about the Muslim cab driver in New York who was central to stopping a terrorist plot by other Muslims. All over New York, people were saying “Who was that mosqued man? I wanted to thank him…” ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/215 "2015-07-29T00:02:12Z")
> [@andros](#): > > I’m sorry. You must have thought you were being very clever with that part. I thought it was pretty pedestrian, actually. “Yuk yuk yuk, Jews are stingy and Muslims hate Jews, get it?” Har. You can make any excuse you like for ignoring a clear insult to the Jews in the exact same sentence that you took issue with the use of an obsolete term for a Muslim. The fact remains you objected to one and not the other. That has been one of **Haberdash’s** points: attacks on Jews are ignored, then dismissed, while perceived slights against Muslims must always be challenged. I thought some of his posts were a little overwrought, but it’s remarkable how closely your posts fit the exact pattern he had predicted. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/216 "2015-07-29T01:06:04Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > Being a Muslim isn’t the same as being a black person no matter how many times you say it is. It’s an ideology that you choose, not something thrust upon you by an accident of your skin color at birth. No it’s not. I didn’t choose be a member of the Ummah. For someone who is obsessed with Muslims you really don’t know much about us. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/217 "2015-07-29T02:31:28Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > At you, I’m sorry to say. You don’t have to witness something to write about it - after all, Woodward and Bernstein weren’t actually at the Watergate Hotel. All right, fair point. > [@](#): > > You’re confusing Jews with Chinese. A common mistake. Well all of you people do look alike to me. (no but seriously, lactose intolerance is a trait shared by Jews and Asian people, with like a 70%+ incidence rate or something close to that. Also Blacks, Native Americans and Pacific Islanders. Basically humans just aren’t any good at digesting dairy, and the fact that Europeans can is the outlier rather than the other way around) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/218 "2015-07-29T02:44:55Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I didn’t ask if your grandparents were given funny looks. I asked if you, today, are still getting funny looks. Because that’s the salient point. It’s only a salient point if the first generation immigrants assimilated. > [@Kobal2](#): > > And 3rd generation immigrant doesn’t mean “is still an immigrant”, just that the kid’s grandparents were. If there is no assimilation then there is no distinction. > [@Kobal2](#): > > The kids who go around painting swastikas in Jewish cemeteries or taking selfies of themselves throwing _la quenelle_ in front of the local synagogue are not immigrants (in fact a large number of them are not even descendants of immigrants…). Immigrants keep their heads down. They knew they would have to keep their heads down before they applied for a visa. Their kids on the other hand never chose anything. Really? you’re blaming the immigrants trying to make a living and tomndebb is blaming poverty. > [@Kobal2](#): > > I know it’s hard to get this into your skull (lord knows we’ve told you this many, many times already), but these kids are **French**. Assimilated in every way and by any metric you’d care to put forward. They speak French (often exclusively), went to French schools, eat at French McDonald’… riot and attack Jews at French temples. The Charlie attack was over an innocuous cartoon. It’s the same violence that sparked riotes over the threat of tearing a few pages from a book. It’s the same violence that has cost billions of dollars for airline security. It’s not going away because you don’t believe it exists. [The vast majority of terrorist groups](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_designated_terrorist_groups) are based around Islam and no amount of excuses changes that fact. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/219 "2015-07-29T03:57:42Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It’s only a salient point if the first generation immigrants assimilated. Are you even trying to make sense any more, or just being contrary for the sake of it ? > [@](#): > > If there is no assimilation then there is no distinction. See above. There’s no value judgement of any kind in the descriptor “3rd generation immigrant”. It’s a demographic/historic indicator, much like Baby Boomer. Whether you accept it or not, you’re one, too. > [@](#): > > Really? you’re blaming the immigrants trying to make a living I am ? I thought I was doing the exact opposite. Immigrants typically don’t cause trouble, if only because they don’t want to be thrown right back out. Considering the administrative nightmare that is involved in securing a _carte de séjour_, one sympathizes. > [@](#): > > riot and attack Jews at French temples. Along with like-minded neo-nazis, yes. > [@](#): > > The Charlie attack was over an innocuous cartoon. It’s the same violence that sparked riotes over the threat of tearing a few pages from a book. It’s the same violence that has cost billions of dollars for airline security. It’s not going away because you don’t believe it exists. [The vast majority of terrorist groups](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_designated_terrorist_groups) are based around Islam and no amount of excuses changes that fact. Actually, in Europe islamic terrorism represents [only 1% of terror incidents](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism#Europe). > [@](#): > > In 2009, a [Europol](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europol) report showed that more than 99% of terrorist attacks in Europe over the last three years were, in fact, carried out by non-Muslims.[[142]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism#cite_note-142)[[143]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism#cite_note-143)[[144]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism#cite_note-144) In terms of arrests, out of a total of 1,009 arrested terror suspects in 2008, 187 of them were arrested in relation to Islamist terrorism. The report also showed that the majority of Islamist terror suspects were not [first generation immigrants](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_generation_immigrant), but were rather [children of immigrants](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_generation_immigrant) who no longer identified with the culture of their parents and at the same time felt excluded from Western society, “which still perceives them as foreigners,” thus they became “more attracted to the idea of becoming ‘citizens’ of the virtual worldwide [Islamic community](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ummah), removed from territory and national culture.”[[145]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism#cite_note-Europol-2009-145) But do keep shaking at the boogah-boogah that fits your preconceived notions. Facts are overrated. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/220 "2015-07-29T04:08:58Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > You can make any excuse you like for ignoring a clear insult to the Jews in the exact same sentence that you took issue with the use of an obsolete term for a Muslim. The fact remains you objected to one and not the other. That has been one of **Haberdash’s** points: attacks on Jews are ignored, then dismissed, while perceived slights against Muslims must always be challenged. > > I thought some of his posts were a little overwrought, but it’s remarkable how closely your posts fit the exact pattern he had predicted. What astounding horseshit. Laughing at your masturbatory use of language is hardly “challenging a perceived slight against Islam.” But hey, I’m glad you’re enjoying yourself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130.md?page=12)