# Europe's anti-Semitism crisis **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 25, 2015, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130 "2015-07-25T02:50:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/241 "2015-07-29T11:10:59Z")
> [@Hiker](#): > > I have heard that claim before and it puzzles me. Are Jews really migrating from France to Israel for reasons of personal safety? I do not have the numbers (and I would appreciate any solid cite that other posters can provide) but it was always my impression that Jews in Israel are in greater danger of being murdered by Muslim extremists than Jews in France are. Is this untrue? Yes, that’s true, even though at the moment, the economic situation and dissatisfaction with the political leadership plays a significant part. As for Israel being safer or not, the grass is always greener. Besides, Israel has been trying for many years to incite French Jews (the third jewish community in the world) to emigrate to Israel. Also, significant numbers come back to France at some point. You don’t lose your French citizenship just because you emigrate to Israel. But there are no existing official figures about returns. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/242 "2015-07-29T11:12:04Z")
Thank you, **clairobscur**. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/243 "2015-07-29T11:15:15Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > It’s the same kind of people who have an issue with Blacks there and “Muslims” here. Don’t forget that “Muslims” “Arabs” are brown too. And attacks against Islam as a religion is more often than not a cover for people to be allowed to express their racism. Ah, so that’s the problem with Muslims caving in the heads of Jews. The Jews complaining about it are _racist_. ---
**Author:** ![Hiker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hiker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiker)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/244 "2015-07-29T11:22:18Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > Ah, so that’s the problem with Muslims caving in the heads of Jews. > > The Jews complaining about it are _racist_. Question: Did you originally start this thread in order to have a discussion? I’m asking, because most of your posts here actually are bordering on trolling. Your favourite “discussion” tactic is to suggest that some poster who disagrees with you has made some outrageous claim they never made. And if you are asked to back up any of your statements, you duck for a while and then return throwing in some more. What are you trying to achieve? ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/245 "2015-07-29T11:28:06Z")
I want to discuss the implications of the Muslims-destroying-Jews crisis in terms of how it is to be contained, how it affects the Israeli question, and other issues. I keep getting derailed by people standing up and saying we’re not allowed to discuss this because noticing it’s happening is racist. ---
**Author:** ![Hiker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hiker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiker)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/246 "2015-07-29T11:30:52Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > I want to discuss the implications of the Muslims-destroying-Jews crisis in terms of how it is to be contained, how it affects the Israeli question, and other issues. I keep getting derailed by people standing up and saying we’re not allowed to discuss this because noticing it’s happening is racist. Oh. I did not see the posts of these people. Can you quote one? ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/247 "2015-07-29T11:32:23Z")
By the way, this passage is a great example of French nationalist cluelessness: > [@clairobscur](#): > > And this racism is widespread. With the progresses of the Front national, people are dropping the mask and stopped being shy about it. I hear antisemite comments…what?..Once or twice a year? I hear racist comments against Arabs all the fucking time. From coworkers. From family. From forwarded emails. From the taxi driver. From the guy having a drink next to me at the bar. Regardless how bloody some of the attacks against Jews have been in the recent years, the ordinary, common, everyday racism is targeting Muslims. They’re the one being “randomly” arrested by the police, being denied entrance in clubs, who don’t get called for job interviews, who don’t get the house rental. > So, yes, we French (at least the ones not voting Front national) have become quite sensitive about the issue and quite adept at detecting the bullshit which is used as cover for this racism. “We’re so much better than you Americans at detecting and honestly dealing with racism. I can tell because everyone I know is constantly yelling racist things and discriminating against people!” ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/248 "2015-07-29T11:56:50Z")
I challenge you to quote where he said that the French were better than Americans at detecting and honestly dealing with racism. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/249 "2015-07-29T13:20:36Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > I want to discuss the implications of the Muslims-destroying-Jews crisis in terms of how it is to be contained, how it affects the Israeli question, and other issues. I keep getting derailed by people standing up and saying we’re not allowed to discuss this because noticing it’s happening is racist. Really. You’d just love to have a calm, rational discussion about the Muslim Problem, but those mean message board posters are exerting magical ninja powers that somehow take control of your kyboard and prevent you from doing so. Yeah, right. Go ahead, make your proposals; you’re not obligated to refute every single thing you disagree with, and you’re doing a hopelessly crappy job of it anyway. But of course, as the old joke goes, you’re not really here for the hunting, are you? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/250 "2015-07-29T14:07:23Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Yet it is mostly Israeli politicians and writers that I see promoting just this idea. The Jewish Agency for Israel is dedicated to the proposition. No it isn’t. The Jewish agency, and most Israeli Jewish politicians, encourage Jews to immigrate to Israel _now_, not in some nebulous future. The Zionist ethos has always been aliyah by choice, not necessity. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/251 "2015-07-29T14:31:05Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > I want to discuss the implications of the Muslims-destroying-Jews crisis in terms of how it is to be contained, how it affects the Israeli question, and other issues. I keep getting derailed by people standing up and saying we’re not allowed to discuss this because noticing it’s happening is racist. Except that you’ve offered no such discussion or analysis. Well, except for “bashing Jews is central to Muslim devotion”, a claim for which you’ve offered no evidence whatsoever. And given the broad generalizations and ridiculous claims you’ve made, I question whether any analysis you proffer is worth reading. You seem to want solely to denounce antiSemitic violence. Fair enough, I don’t think any poster in this thread would argue that it happens and that it is an evil and that it needs to stop. But denunciation is not a debate nor a discussion. That’s why I suggested, not facetiously, that you take it to the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/252 "2015-07-29T14:35:07Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > You seem to want solely to denounce antiSemitic violence. Fair enough, I don’t think any poster in this thread would argue that it happens and that it is an evil and that it needs to stop. The majority of the thread has consisted of people disputing the notion that anti-Jewish violence happens, is evil, or needs to stop. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/253 "2015-07-29T14:41:44Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > The majority of the thread has consisted of people disputing the notion that anti-Jewish violence happens, is evil, or needs to stop. None of that is true. No one is disputing that anti-Jewish violence happens, that it is evil, and that it needs to stop. What _has_ happened is that you have misinterpreted or mischaracterized people’s objections to various other things you have said as disputing those things, but this has nothing to do with what people actually said. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/254 "2015-07-29T14:52:25Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > The majority of the thread has consisted of people disputing the notion that anti-Jewish violence happens, is evil, or needs to stop. The majority of this thread has consisted of you spraying hyperbolic, factually incorrect allegations at all and sundry. But just so we’re clear, I do not in any way dispute the notion that anti-Jewish violence happens, is evil, and needs to stop. What I will dispute is your apparent interpretation that simply calling the source ‘Islam’ does anything particularly useful. Now, the floor’s yours. What are your proposals, or would you prefer to continue to just hurl invective? ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/255 "2015-07-29T15:02:29Z")
France should stop taking in people without jobs to sit around fuming about Jews all day. France should restructure its economy to encourage employment and restructure its housing strategy to encourage integration of different types of people instead of the formation of ethnic enclaves. When an attack happens, it should be fully prosecuted, including the home mosque and other institutions that caused it to happen. People should stop kowtowing to Muslim sensibilities, especially as a reward for violence. French police should actively try to find racist criminals before they kill someone, e.g. by going undercover as Jews and walking through Muslim neigborhoods and making arrests for whatever crimes occur, then pursuing the trail back to the home mosque of the perpetrator. France should get its head out of its ass about how it’s a colorblind society where everything is great (except for the cloud of racists constantly keeping the Muslims down who appear when necessary to minimize Jewish problems and then cooperatively evaporate when it’s time to show how much better France is than the U.S.), about the fact that the way Muslims are not integrating into society now is failing, and about the Jewish exodus. This includes people in this thread who are adding to the list of reasons why anti-Jewish violence doesn’t happen or matter. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/256 "2015-07-29T15:20:31Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > This includes people in this thread who are adding to the list of reasons why anti-Jewish violence doesn’t happen or matter. You persist in repeating this slander. You continue to provide no evidence for it. As for the rest of your erudite suggestions, I guess I’m not shocked by your “root and branch” approach. Why not simply call for the forcible eviction of all Muslims from France? That’s clearly what you’d prefer. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/257 "2015-07-29T15:22:05Z")
I think you’re confused – the group being driven out of France is Jews. Everyone should be entitled to peacefully live where they wish. They’re not entitled to get subsidized to do so, nor to spend their time throwing rocks at schoolchildren. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/258 "2015-07-29T15:28:44Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > I want to discuss the implications of the Muslims-destroying-Jews crisis in terms of how it is to be contained… I thought that’s what good old ethnic street gangs are for. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/259 "2015-07-29T15:34:54Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > The majority of the thread has consisted of people disputing the notion that anti-Jewish violence happens, is evil, or needs to stop. I have to say “crisis” made me laugh. really, we’re weeks away here from ‘pushing them into the sea’. Geez. If there’s a crisis, it’s probably in what’s left of Gaza. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130/260 "2015-07-29T15:46:18Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > France should stop taking in people without jobs to sit around fuming about Jews all day. Good thing we’re not doing that. > [@](#): > > France should restructure its economy to encourage employment and restructure its housing strategy to encourage integration of different types of people instead of the formation of ethnic enclaves. Holy shit ! You have an actual, valid point ! I’ll be damned. But then again, it’s not like the State can _force_ people to sell land or flats to Muslims exclusively, or to enforce hiring quotas for Arabs. Well, I mean, it technically \*can \*- it has all the guns after all. But politically such a measure would go over like a lead balloon filled with uranium. And your fellow travellers would have a field day denouncing preferential treatment for dirty Muzzies, even if it was a soft incentive like tax rebates or cash prizes. > [@](#): > > When an attack happens, it should be fully prosecuted Unlike now, where perpetrators of hate crimes against Jews are awarded an avuncular chuckle and a complimentary croissant, you mean ? :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > including the home mosque and other institutions that caused it to happen. The fuck is a home mosque ? > [@](#): > > People should stop kowtowing to Muslim sensibilities, especially as a reward for violence. Did your eyes just glaze over **clairobscur** ’s last post ? People certainly don’t kowtow to Muslims around here. Quite the opposite. I’m expecting the publishing of the Secret Protocols of the Elders of Mecca any day now. > [@](#): > > French police should actively try to find racist criminals before they kill someone Hey, it worked in _Minority Report_ ! > [@](#): > > e.g. by going undercover as Jews and walking through Muslim neigborhoods and making arrests for whatever crimes occur Half-decent idea, again. I am stunned. > [@](#): > > then pursuing the trail back to the home mosque of the perpetrator. Aaand you sink right back down. You do realize we kind of value such things as free speech and freedom of religion, to some degree ? And that being a Muslim is not a crime per se ? > [@](#): > > France should get its head out of its ass about how it’s a colorblind society where everything is great I agree to this, but not the way you think. I think France really needs to get to fucking grips with its rampant racism - againt Muslims (well, “Arabs”) first and foremost. Wipe that away, and a great many things will improve. Which doesn’t mean the actually problematic elements within the Muslim community get a pass, you binary so-and-so. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/europes-anti-semitism-crisis/726130.md?page=14)