# Euros, Dinosaurs and the Bible. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 14, 2002, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euros-dinosaurs-and-the-bible/142694 "2002-12-14T05:10:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Wearia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/13edae/32.png) [@Wearia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wearia)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2002, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euros-dinosaurs-and-the-bible/142694/1 "2002-12-14T05:10:48Z")
Ok heres the thing, I had a rather heated debate today with a few friends. The old science vs religion one, but thats not what this thread is about. It came up during this discussion that one of my friends church believed that once 12 countries in Europe begin to use the Euro, the world will end. She claimed that the word “Euro” was used as well. My B.S meter flicked on. I found it hard to believe that such an accurate prediction appears in the Bible. Then as the debate went on (past the point at which I was informed that I was going to hell :rolleyes: ) the same girl told me that dinosaurs are talked about in the Bible. She once again went as far to say that the word “dinosaur” is used in the Bible. B.S meter went off again. I came up with two points against, one being that dinosaurs were alive millions of years ago and that conflicts with the creationist belief that the world is 10,000 years old, and secondly that (IIRC) dinosaur is greek for thunder lizard and therefore would have been translated to thunder lizard not dinosaur. But the debate comes down to this: Is there any mention of dinosaurs or the Euro in the Bible? Can you cite quotes or passages? This is **not** a science vs religon debate. I simply want to know if the claims made have any basis. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2002, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euros-dinosaurs-and-the-bible/142694/2 "2002-12-14T05:18:07Z")
This is easy, no and no. Any other questions? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2002, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euros-dinosaurs-and-the-bible/142694/3 "2002-12-14T05:27:24Z")
I can answer this as well: see the above post. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2002, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euros-dinosaurs-and-the-bible/142694/4 "2002-12-14T05:27:39Z")
Just off the top of my head: She’s got her Young Earth Special Creationist and Pre-Millenialist Eschatology facts a bit scrambled. 1. Way back in the early 1970s, Hal Lindsey in _The Late Great Planet Earth_ said that the Beast with 10 Horns in the Book of Revelation corresponded to the European Common Market. At the time he was writing there were IIRC only 7 nations in it, and he predicted that as soon as there were 10 nations in it, that the world would come to an end. Obviously he was wrong. So anyway, this is what she’s thinking of. She probably wasn’t really paying attention and only has part of it. 1. Some Special Creationists claim that the “leviathan” referred to in the Bible, such as in Job 41, actually refers to dinosaurs. People who actually bother to translate the Hebrew say that it means either crocodiles, or whales, or hippos, depending on the passage and the scholar translating it. Nobody seriously suggests that it means “dinosaur”. So no, the Bible doesn’t mention dinosaurs. ---
**Author:** ![Wearia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/13edae/32.png) [@Wearia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wearia)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2002, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euros-dinosaurs-and-the-bible/142694/5 "2002-12-14T05:28:39Z")
Well, I knew that :p. But any ideas to what these things are based on? Anything at all? ---
**Author:** ![Wearia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/13edae/32.png) [@Wearia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wearia)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2002, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euros-dinosaurs-and-the-bible/142694/6 "2002-12-14T05:30:32Z")
Oops didn’t see your post there \*\*Duck Duck Goose \*\*. Thats just what I’m looking for. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2002, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euros-dinosaurs-and-the-bible/142694/7 "2002-12-14T05:30:34Z")
Sorry to be so terse, but there really is nothing remotely similar to either of these claims. There is a phrase which refers to “giants on the earth,” but that was a reference to a city with huge walls. The “euro” thing is completely on the moon. I suppose it’s possible to find some wildly paranoid connection to this verse in _Revelation_: > [@](#): > > Revelation 13 > 17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. In fact, if I had to bet money, I would bet that your friend was parroting back some whacky preacher’s garbled interpretation of this very verse. And that is absolutely the best I can do to answer your OP. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2002, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euros-dinosaurs-and-the-bible/142694/8 "2002-12-14T05:32:15Z")
Oops, DDG beat me to it, as ususal. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2002, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euros-dinosaurs-and-the-bible/142694/9 "2002-12-14T05:35:05Z")
The nutsos are just updating their spiel to keep up with the times. In the early 1970s, it was “obvious” that when ten nations joined the Common Market, they would fullfill the prophecies regarding the ten heads of the dragon and Armageddon would arrive shortly thereafter. (I’m not sure where the “twelve” comes from, but I’m sure it’s among the same set of poorly understood images.) YEC’s generally point to Leviathan and Behemoth as indicating dinosaurs. Since each of those words are _hapax legomenon_ (a word occurring exactly once) in the Tanakh, we have good guesses (but no conclusive proof) that they refer to whales and elephants, so (since we can’t _prove_ what was written) the YECs simply claim that they _really_ mean dinosaurs and megalodons or ichthyosaurs, and so on. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2002, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euros-dinosaurs-and-the-bible/142694/10 "2002-12-14T05:36:54Z")
I forgot to say that some Pre-Mill eschatologists, undaunted by the fact that the Common Market evidently wasn’t the Sign of the End Times, are now transferring other passages from Revelations to the EU. And I’ve got news for her–there already _are_ 12 nations “using the Euro”. Happened nearly a year ago, January 1, 2002. [http://www.wpi.edu/News/TechNews/article.php?id=226](http://www.wpi.edu/News/TechNews/article.php?id=226) > [@](#): > > At midnight on January 1, 2002, the euro became the new legal tender in twelve European countries, and will fully replace the original national currencies by the end of February. Costing over €50 billion and involving over 300 million citizens in these countries, the introduction of euro is the largest currency changeover in history. The French-dependent island of Réunion, located in the Indian Ocean, became the first territory in the world to adopt the euro. > > The euro was officially born on January 1, 1999, initially serving as a single European currency for stock markets and trade purposes among European firms. Eleven European currencies, namely the German Mark, French Franc, Dutch Guilder, Italian Lira, Luxembourg Franc, Belgian Franc, Irish Punt, Spanish Peseta, Portuguese Escudo, Finnish Mark and Austrain Schilling, have been irrevocably connected to the euro since then. > > Greece was included in the eurozone on January 1, 2000, making it the twelfth country to adopt the euro. The Greek Drachma was also tied to the euro on that day. > > Currently, there are three member states of the European Union that have not yet adopted the euro. Previously both Denmark and Sweden opted out of the eurozone. However, both nations are planning to hold new referenda on the single currency next year. Polls in Sweden favor the euro by 51 to 44 percent, compared with 31 to 61 percent a year ago. > > The United Kingdom still has no decision whether to hold a vote on adopting the euro. You notice how the world didn’t end last January? So, her “prediction” dates from before Greece started using the euro, when there really were still only 11 nations using it, or before January 1, 2000. Ask her what Tribulation/Rapture website she’s patronizing. They need to update their FAQ. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Wearia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/13edae/32.png) [@Wearia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wearia)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2002, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euros-dinosaurs-and-the-bible/142694/11 "2002-12-14T05:37:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\* > In fact, if I had to bet money, I would bet that your friend was parroting back some whacky preacher’s garbled interpretation of this very verse. > \*\* My thoughts exactly. ---
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2002, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euros-dinosaurs-and-the-bible/142694/12 "2002-12-14T07:42:23Z")
_Job_ is an ancient book… probably the oldest of any in the Bible. The mythical creatures mentioned within it are possibly Demons from Hebrew mythology (not in the “fallen Angel” sense… these Demons were considered to have been made by God, Himself, and some Demons were good.) It is likely, then, that some of the local flavor-- the common mythology of the times-- would creep into the written word. Such is the case with _Job’s_ monsters. I will grant that some of the dinosaurs were huge, but I _hardly_ think that even the largest had a length of 300 miles, as was sported by Leviathan: > [@](#): > > According to a midrash, the leviathan was created on the fifth day (Yalḳ., Gen. 12). > > Originally God produced a male and a female leviathan, but lest in multiplying the species should destroy the world, He slew the female, reserving her flesh for the banquet that will be given to the righteous on the advent of the Messiah (B. B. 74a). > > The enormous size of the leviathan is thus illustrated by R. Johanan, from whom proceeded nearly all the haggadot concerning this monster: “Once we went in a ship and saw a fish which put his head out of the water. He had horns upon which was written: ‘I am one of the meanest creatures that inhabit the sea. I am three hundred miles in length, and enter this day into the jaws of the leviathan’” (B. B. l.c.). > > When the leviathan is hungry, reports R. Dimi in the name of R. Johanan, he sends forth from his mouth a heat so great as to make all the waters of the deep boil, and if he would put his head into paradise no living creature could endure the odor of him (ib.). His abode is the Mediterranean Sea; and the waters of the Jordan fall into his mouth (Bek. 55b; B. B. l.c.). > >          - [http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=275&letter=L](http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=275&letter=L) Behemoth was mostly just Leviathan’s opposite number, the elemental force of earth and stone as opposed to water and the sea. It is difficult to discuss Leviathan and Behemoth without mentioning Lilith. This site goes into some detail on the three, and it further supports **Tom’s** comments: > [@](#): > > The difference between this translation and the one you are using reflects a fundamental difference in translation philosophy. > > Your version represents an approach to translating the Bible (esp. the Hebrew Bible/Old Testament) that seeks to naturalize any references to mythological or supernatural creatures (except angels) into known animals. (Am I right in suspecting that your translation renders ‘leviathan’ as 'crocodile, ‘behemoth’ as ‘river ox’, etc.?). > > Sometimes this works, other times not. The Hebrew word here is ‘lilith’. Unfortunately, it is a hapax legomenon (a word that occurs only once in the Hebrew Bible) so we can’t determine its meaning by comparison to other uses in the Bible – we are forced to resort to cognate languages (Akkadian, Aramaic, Ugaritic, etc.), versions (early translations) or Jewish tradition to determine its meaning. > > The translation ‘night creatures’ represents a speculative attempt at rendering ‘lilith’ based on its similarity the Hebrew word ‘laylah’ – night. > >          - [http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~humm/Topics/Lilith/isaiah\_dsc.html](http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~humm/Topics/Lilith/isaiah_dsc.html) -David ---
**Author:** ![JerseyDiamond](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8491ac/32.png) [@JerseyDiamond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerseyDiamond)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2002, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euros-dinosaurs-and-the-bible/142694/13 "2002-12-14T07:58:44Z")
I think your friend probably over heard people talking about something, and got it a little messed up. No, nowhere in the Bible does it say that the world will end when the Euro dollar hits. Euro or Europe is NOT mention in the Bible. The Roman Empire is, which _is_ (what scholars agree) Europe. The **EU** and the Euro currency _is_ significant to the end times.-----REASON----- One of the major prophetic events that have yet to be filled is \*\* _Revelation 6:2; 13:1-8_\*\*----The antichrist will set up a one world government. Today, each government has their own currency. After the EU was established, the currency followed. If a **one world government** comes to be, it is reasonable to think that that government is going to want its own currency, a **one world currency**. The goal is to bring people together, basically having them all under one roof. Nothing binds people together like _money_, and having control is the goal of the antichrist. The Eu is rising to power. A European Army will come, which will give them more influence in world affairs. They don’t agree with America on a lot of issues, and with this, they will not have to be second to America. It is all connected. **As for dinosaurs** … I cannot say for certain, but there are dino type creatures mention in the Bible. Read **Job 40:15** and on… Behemoth: He bends his tail like a cedar, His bones are tubes of bronze, His limbs are like bars of iron, no one is fierce enough to rouse him, etc… Leviathan: Airtight impenetrable Scales, eyes like the eyelids of the morning, sparks of fire and a flame come from his mouth, smoke like a seething pot or a cauldron come from his nostrils, etc. **Job 3:8** mourning=leviathan…A wreathed animal, serpent, large sea monster, constellation of the dragon… Serpent=Tanniyn----a marine or land monster, sea-serpent, dragon, jackal, whale Psalms and Isaiah also mentions leviathan **Genesis 1:21** ----every living creature that moveth **Genesis 1:24** ----beast of the earth That’s it for now…JD ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2002, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euros-dinosaurs-and-the-bible/142694/14 "2002-12-14T08:48:35Z")
JerseyDiamond, do you think I should send my t-shirt back to Amnesty International? [http://store.yahoo.com/aipubs/citizen.html](http://store.yahoo.com/aipubs/citizen.html) ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2002, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euros-dinosaurs-and-the-bible/142694/15 "2002-12-14T15:02:18Z")
I’ve heard 12 coming from the 12 tribes of Isreal. No doubt, now there are 12, they will go onto 13 which is an unlucky number… ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2002, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euros-dinosaurs-and-the-bible/142694/16 "2002-12-14T15:17:25Z")
> [@](#): > > One of the major prophetic events that have yet to be filled is Revelation 6:2; 13:1-8----The antichrist will set up a one world government. I am amazed that fundamentalists can trot this out with a straight face. How could a one-world government function? Why would nations voluntarily surrender their sovereignty to a United Earth? Hell, we can’t even get the UN to exercise police powers over rogue nations or to settle conflicts. I could not envision Japan and the Koreas under the same roof, or the US and Iraq, or any Arab nation and Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2002, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euros-dinosaurs-and-the-bible/142694/17 "2002-12-14T15:20:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JerseyDiamond \* > \*\*I think your friend probably over heard people talking about something, and got it a little messed up. > > No, nowhere in the Bible does it say that the world will end when the Euro dollar hits. > > Euro or Europe is NOT mention in the Bible. The Roman Empire is, which _is_ (what scholars agree) Europe. > > The **EU** and the Euro currency _is_ significant to the end times.-----REASON----- > > One of the major prophetic events that have yet to be filled is \*\* _Revelation 6:2; 13:1-8_\*\*----The antichrist will set up a one world government. > > Today, each government has their own currency. After the EU was established, the currency followed. > > If a **one world government** comes to be, it is reasonable to think that that government is going to want its own currency, a **one world currency**. > > The goal is to bring people together, basically having them all under one roof. Nothing binds people together like _money_, and having control is the goal of the antichrist. > > The Eu is rising to power. > A European Army will come, which will give them more influence in world affairs. They don’t agree with America on a lot of issues, and with this, they will not have to be second to America. > > It is all connected. > > **As for dinosaurs** … > I cannot say for certain, but there are dino type creatures mention in the Bible. > Read **Job 40:15** and on… > Behemoth: He bends his tail like a cedar, His bones are tubes of bronze, His limbs are like bars of iron, no one is fierce enough to rouse him, etc… > Leviathan: Airtight impenetrable Scales, eyes like the eyelids of the morning, sparks of fire and a flame come from his mouth, smoke like a seething pot or a cauldron come from his nostrils, etc. > **Job 3:8** > mourning=leviathan…A wreathed animal, serpent, large sea monster, constellation of the dragon… > Serpent=Tanniyn----a marine or land monster, sea-serpent, dragon, jackal, whale > Psalms and Isaiah also mentions leviathan > **Genesis 1:21** ----every living creature that moveth > **Genesis 1:24** ----beast of the earth > > That’s it for now…JD \*\* 😃 Now that’s funny…Money, root of all evil. Look, just because the “euro” is used between several nations, doesn’t mean anything. I doubt the US, or several other nations, are going to scrap the use of their own monetary systems. Sure we might use the Euro occasionally, but as far as surrendering to the Euro, which will, \*naturally \* lead to total domination of some yet-to-exist government.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2002, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euros-dinosaurs-and-the-bible/142694/18 "2002-12-14T15:23:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JerseyDiamond \* > **One of the major prophetic events that have yet to be filled is \*\* _Revelation 6:2; 13:1-8_** ----The antichrist will set up a one world government. > > Today, each government has their own currency. After the EU was established, the currency followed. > > If a **one world government** comes to be, it is reasonable to think that that government is going to want its own currency, a **one world currency**. > > The goal is to bring people together, basically having them all under one roof. Nothing binds people together like _money_, and having control is the goal of the antichrist. > > The Eu is rising to power. > A European Army will come, which will give them more influence in world affairs. They don’t agree with America on a lot of issues, and with this, they will not have to be second to America. > > It is all connected. > \*\* You say “One of the major prophetic events that have yet to be filled”, but really, has **any** of revelations been fulfilled? What is this “European Army”? I don’t recall seeing them on the news. I think this is all wishful thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2002, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euros-dinosaurs-and-the-bible/142694/19 "2002-12-14T15:27:21Z")
Sorry, I just really have to take issue with this: > [@](#): > > The Roman Empire is, which is (what scholars agree) Europe. Um, no, sorry, dear, dunno what scholars you’ve been talking to, but there is no way that the Roman Empire corresponds to Europe. Map of Roman Empire. With cool clickable provinces! [http://www.dalton.org/groups/Rome/RMap.html](http://www.dalton.org/groups/Rome/RMap.html) Notice that Province #11–Langobardi/Cherusci/Sugambri–which is marked as “temporarily held by Rome”, is more-or-less Germany, and it was, um, only “temporarily held by Rome”. Then notice further to the east, west, and north that other modern European places like Scotland, Ireland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Poland, Czech and Slovak Republics, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, and Belarus were never part of the Roman Empire. Map of Europe, with cool clickable nations! Lots of real estate there that never felt a Roman sandal. [http://www.yourchildlearns.com/europe\_map.htm](http://www.yourchildlearns.com/europe_map.htm) It’s a vast oversimplification on the part of those Bible scholars who are only interested in proving the Book of Revelation, to say that “Europe equals the Roman Empire”. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2002, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euros-dinosaurs-and-the-bible/142694/20 "2002-12-14T15:27:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JerseyDiamond \* > \*\* **As for dinosaurs** … > I cannot say for certain, but there are dino type creatures mention in the Bible. > Read **Job 40:15** and on… > Behemoth: He bends his tail like a cedar, His bones are tubes of bronze, His limbs are like bars of iron, no one is fierce enough to rouse him, etc… > Leviathan: Airtight impenetrable Scales, eyes like the eyelids of the morning, sparks of fire and a flame come from his mouth, smoke like a seething pot or a cauldron come from his nostrils, etc. > **Job 3:8** > mourning=leviathan…A wreathed animal, serpent, large sea monster, constellation of the dragon… > Serpent=Tanniyn----a marine or land monster, sea-serpent, dragon, jackal, whale > Psalms and Isaiah also mentions leviathan > **Genesis 1:21** ----every living creature that moveth > **Genesis 1:24** ----beast of the earth > > That’s it for now…JD \*\* I think you are _interpreting_ and picking and choosing your verses. Let’s here those passages in their fullest. For Behemoth, from the description you provided, I see a creature made of iron. A statue. For Leviathon, again, from the description you provided, I see a hot air blimp or a submarine. Also, what did your Genesis qoutes have to do with anything? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euros-dinosaurs-and-the-bible/142694.md?page=2)