# Euthanasiast, you musically uneducated little shit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 6, 2006, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euthanasiast-you-musically-uneducated-little-shit/379256 "2006-11-06T04:14:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euthanasiast-you-musically-uneducated-little-shit/379256/41 "2006-11-06T20:43:11Z")
[QUOTE=Big Bad Voodoo Lou] Well I hear Cameron Diaz plays Justin Timberlake’s instrument, which makes him pretty cool. [/QUOTE] I hear Cameron Diaz play’s _everyone’s_ instrument, which makes him a canidate for the free clinic, at least. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euthanasiast-you-musically-uneducated-little-shit/379256/42 "2006-11-06T20:43:25Z")
[QUOTE=jjimm] **Soapbox Monkey** , if I were you on this occasion I’d just retire with my tail between my legs. [/QUOTE] Excellent advice. Just walk away man. Something tells me that a monsoon of a shitstorm is poised to dump on you if you don’t. He who fights and runs away, lives to fight another day. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euthanasiast-you-musically-uneducated-little-shit/379256/43 "2006-11-06T20:45:15Z")
Fuckin’ A, **Euthansiast**. Talk about a one punch, flat on your back KO! As for the Timberlake vs Mayers “debate” must admit I don’t know shit about either one and I aim to keep it that way. Then again, that was some impressive reply… ---
**Author:** ![AndyPolley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@AndyPolley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndyPolley)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euthanasiast-you-musically-uneducated-little-shit/379256/44 "2006-11-06T20:52:18Z")
There are some smokin’ tracks on the live John Meyer Trio disc, but Justin is clearly a better singer. Hunt down some of the harmony singing he used to pull out with N’sync. I’m not kidding. **Euthanasiast** , I thought linking to your (brilliant) “Suck it down” pit was a touch self-congraulatory for my taste, but otherwise…_damn._ ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euthanasiast-you-musically-uneducated-little-shit/379256/45 "2006-11-06T20:52:47Z")
[QUOTE=Leviosaurus] Originally Posted by rayh G G E A G E G G E A G E ROTFLMAO! C C C F F G G G F F [/QUOTE] A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A (Electric Avenue) ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euthanasiast-you-musically-uneducated-little-shit/379256/46 "2006-11-06T20:53:42Z")
[QUOTE=Big Bad Voodoo Lou] Well I hear Cameron Diaz plays Justin Timberlake’s instrument, which makes him pretty cool. [/QUOTE] I’ve heard that she blows his pink oboe. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euthanasiast-you-musically-uneducated-little-shit/379256/47 "2006-11-06T20:54:42Z")
Problem is, all of **Euthanasiast** ’s studying aside, he’s chosen to vouch for a shitty songwriter. So you like Mayer, fine, we all have a guilty pleasure. And he can play the guitar, true. I saw him on I believe it was a Townes Van Zandt special and he was a quite good \* guitar player \*. I’ve heard his songs, as he’s particularly popular with twenty something girls in Atlanta (a demographic my wife and her friends falls squarely within) such that every dinner party is set to the same soundtrack that really moves the cinnamon scented candles at Potter Barn and surges the sale of moca-crapa-chinos at Starbucks – I swear, were he to breed with Snora Jones, we could eradicate insomnia. Bottom line, his music is uninspiring. Jack White, now there’s a freaking genius. Or, how about the uber-prolific Ryan Adams? Whoever does the Scissor Sisters song writing can really produce some good pop music. But not Mayer. Nice _ad hominem_ attack though. ---
**Author:** ![Jammer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df705f/32.png) [@Jammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jammer)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euthanasiast-you-musically-uneducated-little-shit/379256/48 "2006-11-06T21:24:43Z")
Personally, I would have gone with “text-based, **third-term** abortion.” Outside that, HOLY FUCK, what a beatdown. Jammer ---
**Author:** ![Caffeine.addict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@Caffeine.addict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caffeine.addict)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euthanasiast-you-musically-uneducated-little-shit/379256/49 "2006-11-06T21:29:45Z")
Is anyone else amused or amazed to see this much passion in a discussion about John Mayer? To me his music is inoffensive pop. It fails to rouse in me so much as even dislike as that would at least be a reaction and not mere difference. I can’t read this discussion without thinking of [this](http://www.somethingawful.com/index.php?a=1854) article from Something Awful on Jack Johnson and John Mayer. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euthanasiast-you-musically-uneducated-little-shit/379256/50 "2006-11-06T21:39:14Z")
[QUOTE=Wolfian] Well the kids listen to the “rap” music and then they get the brain damage. With their hippin’ and their hoppin’ and their bippin’ and their boppin’ they don’t know what the Jazz is all about. Pokémon, anyone? [/QUOTE] Oh, Pokémon! With the Poké and the mon and the stuff and the thing and the ha ah ah ah ah! ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euthanasiast-you-musically-uneducated-little-shit/379256/51 "2006-11-06T21:41:31Z")
Do not EVER get into a pitting contest with **Euthanasiast**. Just don’t. Heh, A debate over John Timbermeyer verses Justin Lake…Whooda thunk? ---
**Author:** ![Soapbox\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Soapbox\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soapbox_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euthanasiast-you-musically-uneducated-little-shit/379256/52 "2006-11-06T22:12:55Z")
Not a debate of Justin Timberlake vs. John Mayers. JT was the first random artist I picked when Euthanasiast “challenged” me to find someone who makes better music than John Mayer who’s in the Top 100. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euthanasiast-you-musically-uneducated-little-shit/379256/53 "2006-11-06T22:26:00Z")
[QUOTE=Soapbox Monkey] Not a debate of Justin Timberlake vs. John Mayers. JT was the first random artist I picked when Euthanasiast “challenged” me to find someone who makes better music than John Mayer who’s in the Top 100. [/QUOTE] So you came back in two hours. And this is all you brought with you? It’s a bit light. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euthanasiast-you-musically-uneducated-little-shit/379256/54 "2006-11-06T22:27:19Z")
[QUOTE=Misnomer] Are you fucking serious? Try remedying your own “apparent lack of musical education or experience” before you go spouting off crap like this around people who actually _do_ know better. [/QUOTE] Well, I do know better, and there’s definitely different kinds of musical listeners in the world. Some are lyrics-centered, some are music-centered, some are a combination of the two. For me, I’m one of the people who prefers a good tune with passable lyrics to a passable tune with good lyrics. (With the exception of songs forms like blues and folk and country where lyrics are more central to the songwriting.) I’m driven by the music in the song, and not the lyrics themselves. For me, a great song transcends language and lyrics are secondary to truly good songwriting. And technical virtuosity is definitely not important in good songwriting. But I’m speaking in terms of pop and rock songwriting. Like I said, different styles, different values. The fact that John Mayer is good with a guitar does not automatically make him a good songwriter. He’s got some decent tunes and I think his newest album is actually pretty damned good. However, I can see how somebody like **Soapbox Monkey** would value Justin Timberlake’s music as being a better example of good songwriting. I would actually agree that mainstream Justin Timberlake has better songs than mainstream John Mayer, even though I think the entire argument is a bit silly. ---
**Author:** ![Hamadryad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6de8d8/32.png) [@Hamadryad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamadryad)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euthanasiast-you-musically-uneducated-little-shit/379256/55 "2006-11-06T22:35:42Z")
[QUOTE=Soapbox Monkey] Haha, I admit, I do get way too heated about arguments. But that’s only because I cannot stand stupid people. They make my hair grey…and I’m only 22. No, seriously, I’ll mail you one of the hairs, I’ve got about 5 so far. [/QUOTE] You must be full of self-loathing, then, because only a congenital idiot would dismiss the blues out-of-hand. ---
**Author:** ![Soapbox\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Soapbox\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soapbox_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euthanasiast-you-musically-uneducated-little-shit/379256/56 "2006-11-06T22:41:00Z")
Overall I feel like I got off pretty easy seeing as how in that entire reply you only mustered 4 sentences that actually addressed the actual debate we had going. Though I will commend you for your excellent use of defamatory adjectives. Secondly, the most important thing in this thread that many of you seem to be missing is that I was playing devil’s advocate with my support of Justin Timberlake (whom I picked at random). In the John Mayer thread I made the true claim (albeit cliched), that songwriting abilities are for the most part determined by the imagination of the musician, and has much less to do with their actual technical proficiency (so long as they are at least capable of playing the songs they are writing). I placed John Mayer in this camp. **Euthanasiast** called me on it, and not particularly in the mood for a lengthy debate for what was meant to be a mildly arrogant cheapshot, I obliged. He then “challenged” me to name artists on the Top 100 who are better songwriters than John Mayer, which is a trap to begin with, by expecting me to wade through a lot of shit to try and find something that was superior to someone else I think is crap. But I decided to humor **Euthanasiast** and give the ol’ Billboard a look see, and I picked two individuals, one represented by name on the charts, and one who acts as a producer to many of today’s pop and hip hop acts (Justin Timberlake and Timbaland respectively). Falling into **Euthanasiast** _oh so clever trap_, he proceeded to berate me for having the gall to suggest that JT is a better songwriter than John Mayer! He then asked me to provide some JT lyrics that show his musical superiority over Mayer. But I don’t recall the relevance of lyrics ever being brought up (nor did it need to be, as a good song is more than virtuoso guitar or poetic verse). Did I know of Mayer’s supposedly superior side projects (the stuff he apparently isn’t fighting to have heard by a wider audience)? No, but I’ve heard his mainstream fluff, and it was enough to write him off as a talented musician who simply lacked the ability to properly congeal those talents into a great song. But I can hardly be faulted for not knowing offhand about John Mayer’s side projects. If you had heard that Fred Durst had some side project that was actually _good_, would you really waste your time and effort seeking out the music of someone who has already presented themselves to be lacking in originality or spark? John Mayer, through the music that he has no problem displaying for all to see, has shown himself to be completely lacking in edge, energy, or ingenuity. His music all comes out like glossed over snooze-rock along with James Blunt and Jack Johnson. I’m sure it’s great to have on to woo a woman into bed ([Not](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=171697) [that](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=190809) [I’d](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=194592) [know](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=209653) [anything](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=215041) [about](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=219150) [that](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=248973) of course). ---
**Author:** ![Soapbox\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Soapbox\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soapbox_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euthanasiast-you-musically-uneducated-little-shit/379256/57 "2006-11-06T22:45:00Z")
[QUOTE=Hamadryad] You must be full of self-loathing, then, because only a congenital idiot would dismiss the blues out-of-hand. [/QUOTE] Please cite where I dismissed blues as a genre. I did facetiously said “those same old scales and licks that are used over and over again” as a point against Euthanasiast’s criticism of sampling. But I clearly didn’t dismiss the genre nor did I attack any particular blues artist, save John Mayer. ---
**Author:** ![Soapbox\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Soapbox\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soapbox_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euthanasiast-you-musically-uneducated-little-shit/379256/58 "2006-11-06T22:48:08Z")
[QUOTE=pulykamell] However, I can see how somebody like **Soapbox Monkey** would value Justin Timberlake’s music as being a better example of good songwriting. I would actually agree that mainstream Justin Timberlake has better songs than mainstream John Mayer, even though I think the entire argument is a bit silly. [/QUOTE] I’m glad you see what I was going for, but if you’ll refer to my big post above I explained how JT was my first random choice from the options presented to me (by generous Euthanasiast). I don’t value Justin Timberlake’s music. But given the choice between JT and JM, I’m gonna choose the one who is at least trying to do something that sounds different compared to JM’s ho-hum lullabies. ---
**Author:** ![Talon\_Karrde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Talon\_Karrde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Talon_Karrde)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euthanasiast-you-musically-uneducated-little-shit/379256/59 "2006-11-06T22:54:33Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] I would like to enthusiastically sign up for the “Justin Timberlake and John Mayer both suck” club, while noting that John Mayer does, at least, play his own instrument, which automatically makes him half as sucky. [/QUOTE] John Lydon, Michael Stipe, Morrissey, Shane MacGowan, and Chuck D are all tons awesomer than John Mayer, and none of them play instruments. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euthanasiast-you-musically-uneducated-little-shit/379256/60 "2006-11-06T23:04:54Z")
I read most of the orginal thread, and **Euthanasiast** lost all musical credibility with me the second he suggested that Mayer’s peers were (just) those also within the top 100 on billboard. I mean holy fuck, his peers are _just_ the people who sell to the masses? Instead of his peers being all his contemporaries… For someone who claims to be all about music, this is a stunningly supid tactic to take in order to try to win an argument. By that yardstick Jewel must be a much better poet than John Berryman because she has a collection that ranks 193,231st best seller at Amazon vs his at an inferior 314,522nd. I mean fuck, I’m a better poet than Jewel. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euthanasiast-you-musically-uneducated-little-shit/379256.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/euthanasiast-you-musically-uneducated-little-shit/379256.md?page=4)