# Evading the hate speech prohibition **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [September 4, 2024, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evading-the-hate-speech-prohibition/1006775 "2024-09-04T19:02:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2024, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evading-the-hate-speech-prohibition/1006775/81 "2024-09-05T14:32:10Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Fully agree. Thank you. My posts are intended to mean “expression of hate” whenever I used “hate speech”. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2024, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evading-the-hate-speech-prohibition/1006775/82 "2024-09-05T14:35:52Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > My posts are intended to mean “expression of hate” whenever I used “hate speech”. “There’s glory for you!” ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2024, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evading-the-hate-speech-prohibition/1006775/83 "2024-09-05T15:09:48Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > The post they were complaining about didn’t even use the word _nigger_. This is a point that really needs more attention. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2024, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evading-the-hate-speech-prohibition/1006775/84 "2024-09-05T15:11:34Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > This is a point that really needs more attention. I’m not sure it does. It essentially spelled the word with a nonstandard font. I’m not sure what linguistic theory says that when you use nonstandard characters to spell a word in a standard way, you’re not using that word. Edit: realizing it wasn’t entirely standard-with-nonstandard-font, but would’ve been if the second slash had been a 3. I only noticed that on going back to look at it. My brain immediately parsed it as the word, fully spelled out. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2024, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evading-the-hate-speech-prohibition/1006775/85 "2024-09-05T15:18:23Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > It essentially spelled the word with a nonstandard font. The word niggir? ETA: see you ninjaed this, but my point stands - what’s the real difference between this obfuscation and “n-word”? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2024, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evading-the-hate-speech-prohibition/1006775/86 "2024-09-05T15:18:55Z")
I’m not sure what linguistic theory sees a substantial difference between “n-word” and “nigger.” Everyone knows what word is being referred to. It’s not like “igger” is the offensive part. Certainly, calling another poster “a dumb n-word” would be moderated no less severely than if they’d spelled it out. Would the OP’s issue be resolved if the problematic post had said, “Republicans think Kamala Harris is an n-word b-word”? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2024, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evading-the-hate-speech-prohibition/1006775/87 "2024-09-05T15:22:18Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’m not sure what linguistic theory sees a substantial difference between “n-word” and “nigger.” “N-word” is itself an accepted, standard word at this point, a deliberate euphemism created to avoid saying its referent. “n/99/r” isn’t a standard word, so the brain needs to process it, and my brain processed it as a (mostly–see my edit, @MrDibble) standard spelling of the word, using a nonstandard font. > [@Miller](#): > > Would the OP’s issue be resolved if the problematic post had said, “Republicans think Kamala Harris is an n-word b-word”? I can’t speak for the OP, but I would’ve responded differently to that. Culture and idiom doesn’t necessarily make rational sense when divorced from cultural context. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2024, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evading-the-hate-speech-prohibition/1006775/88 "2024-09-05T15:24:55Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > “N-word” is itself an accepted, standard word at this point, a deliberate euphemism created to avoid saying its referent. “n/99/r” isn’t a standard word, so the brain needs to process it, and my brain processed it as a (mostly–see my edit, @MrDibble) standard spelling of the word, using a nonstandard font. What word does your brain process the deliberately euphemistic n-word into? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2024, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evading-the-hate-speech-prohibition/1006775/89 "2024-09-05T15:33:11Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > What word does your brain process the deliberately euphemistic n-word into? At this point, it doesn’t. Its power as a euphemism is strong enough that the processing doesn’t happen: it’s its own word. Given its prevalence, I suspect my reaction is fairly common. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2024, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evading-the-hate-speech-prohibition/1006775/90 "2024-09-05T15:33:18Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Would the OP’s issue be resolved if the problematic post had said, “Republicans think Kamala Harris is an n-word b-word”? Not really, but it’s closer to where I’d put the fuzzy border because the attribution is much closer to the expression of hate. Please don’t get hung up on the naughty words, the issue is with the expression of hate (formerly known as hate speech). ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2024, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evading-the-hate-speech-prohibition/1006775/91 "2024-09-05T15:38:23Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > At this point, it doesn’t. Its power as a euphemism is strong enough that the processing doesn’t happen: it’s its own word. What is the definition of _n-word_? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2024, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evading-the-hate-speech-prohibition/1006775/92 "2024-09-05T15:39:51Z")
Your Socratic dialogue feels to me like it’s missing the point. Assume I give the answer you want, shout “GOTCHA!” and score one for you. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2024, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evading-the-hate-speech-prohibition/1006775/93 "2024-09-05T16:04:55Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > “N-word” is itself an accepted, standard word at this point, a deliberate euphemism created to avoid saying its referent. But it’s accepted only as a way to mention the word, not to use it. As noted, calling someone an “n-word” is not accepted or standard (racists aside). On the broader question, I don’t think the usage in the post that started this is hate speech, and I give special weight to the opinion of posters like @MrDibble who have hate speech directed at them much more than I ever will. But I do think it was a bad way to attempt to make a point. There are ways to use shocking speech to good effect, and this wasn’t it. There’s no need for it to be moderated, but we are all justified in thinking less of someone who uses it like that. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2024, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evading-the-hate-speech-prohibition/1006775/94 "2024-09-05T16:07:44Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > There’s no need for it to be moderated, but we are all justified in thinking less of someone who uses it like that. I’m not even sure I agree with this. But it is easily a situation to **Reply as a linked Topic** into either MPSIMS or the Pit and try to get them to understand how that usage, even meaning to imitate racist is still offensive and should probably be avoided. Instructing people (you know “Fighting Ignorance”) is a good thing. If it really pissed you off, use #The BBQ Pit , if you are more concerned with instructing, use #Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share > **How to \*\*Reply as a linked Topic\*\*:** > > **If you are responding to something in a thread that is basically off-topic or likely to lead to a hijack, try this:** > > Click Reply, in the upper left corner of the reply window is the reply type button, _looks like a curving arrow point to the right_. > > Choose **Reply as linked topic** and it starts a new thread. As an example, you can choose GD, IMHO or The Pit for it. > > That is actually the best method. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2024, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evading-the-hate-speech-prohibition/1006775/95 "2024-09-05T18:03:05Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > But it’s accepted only as a way to mention the word, not to use it. As noted, calling someone an “n-word” is not accepted or standard (racists aside). Right. It’s weird, because the referent of “n-word” isn’t a person, it’s a word. In usage it’s more closely related to “noun” or “epithet” than it is to “person” or to the word it references. It’s a word that describes another word. Virtually every use of it is in a sentence like, “White people really need to stop saying the n-word,” not, “John Doe is an n-word.” In the same way that the word “dropping” is not the same as actually having a stinky turd in my hand, “n-word” is not the same thing as the actual epithet. > [@What\_Exit](#): > > But it is easily a situation to **Reply as a linked Topic** into either MPSIMS or the Pit and try to get them to understand how that usage, even meaning to imitate racist is still offensive and should probably be avoided. Instructing people (you know “Fighting Ignorance”) is a good thing. Maybe I’m misunderstanding–but isn’t ATMB a place where best practices on this board can be discussed, even if it’s not calling for a change in moderation? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2024, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evading-the-hate-speech-prohibition/1006775/96 "2024-09-05T19:00:51Z")
Not what I was talking about. Actually reread my post and what I replied to. I think it is fairly clear I’m saying rather than looking down on someone, correct them, preferably gently and in a linked thread, not in thread to cause a hijack. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2024, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evading-the-hate-speech-prohibition/1006775/97 "2024-09-05T19:17:58Z")
If I corrected everyone I thought was being dumb, I’d get nothing done. Yes, there’s a time to spawn a new thread and discuss something in more depth. There are also plenty of times when the best course of action is shaking your head and moving on. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2024, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evading-the-hate-speech-prohibition/1006775/98 "2024-09-05T19:18:29Z")
Well that’s fair. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2024, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evading-the-hate-speech-prohibition/1006775/99 "2024-09-05T19:21:12Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > I think it is fairly clear I’m saying rather than looking down on someone, correct them, preferably gently and in a linked thread, not in thread to cause a hijack. I appreciate the clarification. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2024, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evading-the-hate-speech-prohibition/1006775/100 "2024-09-05T23:44:11Z")
Just to be clear, my position on the issue is that I would never use that word, bowdlerized or not, in the way that it was used in the post that inspired this thread. It’s gross and I didn’t like reading it, and I’d be ashamed to write it. But it’s also not something I think needs moderation. It doesn’t seem to violate our rules and doesn’t need a new rule to prevent it. People post things I dislike all the time on the board and I don’t think my distaste for a post is justification for sanction. But I definitely didn’t like it and don’t endorse what was written or how it was written. And I don’t see hypocrisy or any other contradiction or problem in that opinion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evading-the-hate-speech-prohibition/1006775.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evading-the-hate-speech-prohibition/1006775.md?page=6)