Extra downside, if you go to sell it it will be harder to find a buyer and you will probably get less $ for it.
- A FWD automatic capable of handling 200 hp / 200 lbs*ft on the input shaft generally weighs 175-200 lbs. A FWD manual capable of handling the same inputs weighs under 100 lbs, under 80 if you’re Honda and use a magnesium case. Check the curb weights for a manual and an automatic version of the same car. Ford lists the 2.5 liter Fusion at 3323 lbs with a manual and 3427 lbs with an automatic.
100 lbs may not be significant on a 4000 lb car - but what if you’re looking at a 2000 lb car?
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Clutch life on most 2WD cars is over 150,000 miles. There’s an excellent chance that the only maintenance you’ll do to a manual/clutch combo is fluid replacements at 60k, 120k, and 180k miles.
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Car and Driver performance tests of manual and automatic versions of the Honda Accord 2.4 showed that the automatic ran a 16.1 second standing-start quarter-mile, while the manual ran a 15.2. That was with all-new designs for the engine and both transmissions for 2013.
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In snowy weather you can use the rotating inertia of the engine, flywheel/clutch, and gearbox to avoid wheelspin or lockup entirely. Most automatics will not lock up the torque converter much below 50 MPH. The traction control and ABS can intervene in an automatic once you’ve broken the wheels loose - but sometimes that’s too late to save a spin or crash.
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For the same chassis and same engine automatics have now matched or beaten manuals on the EPA fuel-economy tests. However, it would take an engine with an extra 30-40 horsepower for the Accord automatic to match the performance of the manual 2.4. If you split the difference between the 2.4 and 3.5 automatic cars’ fuel economy, you get 23.5 city / 35 highway - and the manual’s 24/34 on the same test. This is with manual transmission cars being intentionally crippled on the EPA test with set shift speeds at 15/25/40/45/60 mph.
But this is exactly the type of car that the OP is considering buying! If you want to say that an expensive automatic car is much better than the stickshift version of that car, I wouldn’t argue (too much). I still prefer my stickshift Corolla over the automatic version I drove. I know the Corolla is an econobox; in my experience (and in my opinion), I think you get a better driving experience with the stickshift verison in this particular low-end car.
If the transmission type/performance is important, then make it a criterion for selecting the car. Don’t buy a car with a manual just because the auto in that model is crappy… pick another model that has a better tranny. There are good ones in every category, barring perhaps the very bottom layer, which Corollas aren’t.
In my wheelin’ n’ dealin’ experience, these days the former is often true but the latter isn’t necessarily and for some vehicles the manual will even go for more.
It’s one of the many situations where the new car market doesn’t quite jive with what the used car market wants. Modern automatics are generally good enough reliability-wise over the time periods that most new car buyers keep a car for, but my informal “what’s getting taken apart when I drive by the local transmission shop” poll shows that even cars supposedly built in the age of reliable automatics still have problems when they start getting older. If you’re buying a somewhat older used car, a lot of buyers are going to prefer the manual but so few of them are sold new that they do sometimes become sought-after. I noticed this was especially true with full-size trucks when I was shopping for one, especially now that they don’t sell ANY 1/2 tons with a manual anymore.
Also, with maintenance, I actually just bought a brand-new car with a stick. There’s zero maintenance listed for the stick shift (although I think I will probably change the fluid around 100k or so). The automatic version of the same car has a CVT that calls for expensive fluid changes every 36k. Even though the CVT gets an MPG or two better, without having to do those fluid flushes the stick is definitely going to be cheaper to run overall. Plus then I don’t have to drive a godawful CVT!
Maybe right now, in 2014. But I’m driving a 2000 Accord with a stick, and I occasionally drive my wife’s 2009 Accord automatic. And we frequently rent cars on vacation, all automatics, of course. And while autos have a much shorter committee meeting nowadays than they used to before they decide to shift, it’s still a meeting where they think and talk it over, then shift. And Lord help us on the downshifting; they’re always way behind. Not to mention, autos, at least as of 2009, were still prone to this business where they seem to pick up a little extra speed at the wrong time for no apparent reason.
I can say authoritatively that no more than 10 years ago, automatics were still shit in a wide variety of cars. 5 years ago, they’d improved to half-decent but still inferior. My opinion about now, based on recent rentals, is that they’re finally closing the gap, but there’s still a gap.
They can have my stick shift when they finally get me a self-driving car. Screw the in-between shit.
Automatics are boring. There’s nothing to do but move the steering wheel a bit. I had to switch to automatic about 8 years ago, and it still make me sad.
a manual shift helps you avoid many operator distractions with in town driving.
If you drive in a place with a lot of stop and go traffic and stop lights, manuals are a pain in the ass. It’s no fun to have to go through the gears every two minutes.
Otherwise, there’s really no difference in either. I switched to an automatic 30 years ago because my wife couldn’t handle a stick, and I don’t miss it, but if for some reason I needed to get a stick, I’d go back.
For me, it comes down to fun, I enjoy driving, the manual gives me more control over the car, and more efficient use of the available power (clutch plates vs fluid torque converter), I haven’t spent any time beyond a test drive in a DSG model, but found it underwhelming, very underwhelming
The foot operated clutch adds an infinite amount of variability that is missing from an on/off DSG/flappy paddle type transmission
And to be blunt, if the transmission is capable of shifting on it’s own in any way, like the DSG, then it’s NOT a manual, it’s a fancy automatic
True manual with foot operated clutch is the only true manual, if it doesn’t have a clutch pedal, it’s an automatic, manual only for me
Not for you, maybe. 
I drive a manual Focus SVT; great little car. I love driving manuals, but I do not think I will be able to justify it on my next vehicle. I likely will skip automatics entirely and move directly to a CVT. A good CVT will always give more power when you want it than a manual and more fuel efficiency at other times than an automatic.
I test drove a Subaru with one a while back and I have to say it is an odd experience. Not even the feel of an automatic’s gear shift, just a continuous output of power. It might be something else for you to look at.
I’d disagree with this…there’s a variety of cars out there now that are manuals all offering variations on an automated clutch. Yes, they’re manual gearboxes with the clutch being operated by the computer.
And the GTi offers at least one variation.
I’ve driven a few different iterations, and found the “clutchless manuals” to be a really good compromise between autos and full manuals - and they’ll overcome all of the “problems” people have with autos.
For me, I’m currently driving a small 2006 MPV auto - it’s only a four speed so it’s a ratio or two short of what I would like. There are times when it’s in the wrong gear, which I don’t like, but in reality - at the end of the day, this is a family car and if you drive it like a family car is “supposed” to be driven then the transmission is more than up to the task.
Hasn’t been my experience at all.
I thought of another thing where manuals are better. When you get into a situation (packed snow or mud) when it’s beneficial to rock the car, how the hell do you do that in an automatic?
No; I drive in ice & snow half the year and in the mountains all year and I really prefer a stick.
Oh, and whoever said or implied that if you have a manual you have to get out of the car to get it into 4-wheel, that has not been the case with any 4-wheel vehicle I’ve owned.
I’d disagree and consider this semantics. Generally speaking, the purpose of a gearbox is to keep the engine within a given range of its powerband. I can do this with a paddle shifted system (more efficiently, at that), and in my vehicle, the only time I can’t manually control this operation, is in a potential stall or overheating situation (it won’t allow either). Neither of those is desirable, so for all intents and purposes, it’s full manual control over shift behavior. Operating a clutch is just an additional step to the above, which doesn’t add any benefit, but further complicates the process by circumstance. If the left foot needs activity, there is always left foot braking (which is actually pretty tricky).
I also own a clutch manual car, and while fun, that’s the only real difference (I won’t say advantage, because I consider the speed and directness of paddles to be superior when driving for performance, as opposed to leisure). I absolutely love manual in cars like the MX-5, where performance numbers aren’t the specific focus, relative to the driving experience. In these cases, it makes total sense and I don’t mind the middle man that is the clutch.
Full automatic mode does me well for long trips or city driving, where my average speed is low and there is constant traffic. I consider that to be junk driving and have always hated clutch-manuals there, because its the antithesis of fun.
By controlling the throttle and placing the car in gear as necessary? Besides, if you’re in snow for six months, you’d probably also be wearing appropriate tires, which matter more.
Okay, it’s been a while since I test drove a DSG (Golf TDi), and my memory is fuzzy, but what would the transmission do in these situations;
1; driver has his foot to the floor and is approaching redline
A; transmission stays in gear and engine bounces off rev-limiter
B; transmission up shifts as redline approaches
C; other (what does it do?)
2; driver is slowing to a stop and has not downshifted to a lower gear
A; transmission stays in selected gear, engine may lug or stall if the driver doesn’t downshift before starting off again
B; transmission automatically downshifts to lower gear
3; in normal driving…
A; driver needs to select each gear manually, transmission will not self operate or self select
B; driver has the option of putting it in “D” and letting the transmission handle the shifting itself
If any of the above options are “B”, it’s an automatic, a true manual does not take any action not initiated by the driver
Sorry, but I experience that added benefit (the benefit you claim doesn’t exist) literally every time I drive in and out of my neighborhood.
A section of the main road through the neighborhood goes down, up, down, up in fairly quick succession, but still several seconds’ worth of each. Going down, I step on the clutch to disengage, so that I’m not adding power on the downhill, then complete my downshift as I start into the uphill.
I get the right amount of speed and power at every point., and there’s no reason for me to be in any gear on the two short downhills. (An automatic tends to be somewhat unnerving on these downhills, continuing to accelerate slightly even with my foot off the gas. But I digress.) I don’t want to downshift as I go into the downhill, because that’s a more abrupt slowing effect than I want. But if I stay in the gear I was in as I go into the downhill, I have to keep giving it gas into the downhill so it doesn’t stall.
So neither staying in the same gear, nor downshifting, is appropriate as I start into the downhill. But simply disengaging is just right.
In short, that clutch pedal gives me an option that I wouldn’t otherwise have - and that I avail myself of routinely.
In the cars mentioned in the original post, an automatic transmission will cost an extra $800-$1000. I have found that dealers will further reduce a manual model because it’s not an automatic. The problem is finding one on the lot.
Clutches are good for 150,000+ miles these days in small cars.
The downside of “nobody else can drive it” is, what if you’re ever in a situation where you want or need somebody else to drive your car, and they have no experience with a stick shift?
Hasn’t happened to me in 27 years of driving stick shifts. Of course, I’ve got a number of family members and friends who can drive standards, but I’ve never really needed to have someone else besides my wife drive my car.
ETA:
Not sure I’ve ever had to have one replaced. My 2000 Accord (214K miles and counting) is still on its original clutch.