# Evangelical/Fundamentalist/non-denominational Christians and no commitments to helping others. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 7, 2017, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evangelical-fundamentalist-non-denominational-christians-and-no-commitments-to-helping-others/779203 "2017-02-07T01:47:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evangelical-fundamentalist-non-denominational-christians-and-no-commitments-to-helping-others/779203/21 "2017-02-07T23:41:55Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > The churches that you were exposed to evidently didn’t teach you much about the Bible. > > Matthew 16:25 is talking about eternal life, and therefore has no bearing whatsoever on whether somebody does works of charity. > > Matthew 25:35 is explained in verse 40– > “And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.” > Notice that phrase, “My brethren.” Jesus is talking about Christians helping other Christians, not people in general. This is borne out by Romans 8:16, 17– > “The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.” God would never talk about non-Christians being “brethren.” > > James 2:15-17 is exactly the same. James is also talking about Christians helping other Christians, as shown in the very beginning of that passage where he says, “If a brother or sister. . . .” > This usage is still common today, as shown by the song “The Family of God” by Bill Gaither. Part of it goes, > “You will notice we say “brother > and sister” 'round here- > It’s because we’re a family > and these folks are so near.” > > Furthermore, denomination very often has little to do with how generous a church is. Size is a vastly better predictor. It has been noted by several people over the years that a small church almost invariably collects a higher per-capita Sunday morning offering than a big church. Huh, thank you for explaining why the phrase “Christian Charity” has no meaning. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evangelical-fundamentalist-non-denominational-christians-and-no-commitments-to-helping-others/779203/22 "2017-02-07T23:45:46Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > In this case one can help out refugees as individuals without thinking that it is best for our country to take in every refugee in the world or do away with borders. Obviously people of goodwill can have different opinions as to the number and types of refugees can safely be taken in. It’s hard to help a refugee if the [del]Sultan[/del] President won’t let him in the country. I wonder how many fundamentalists really want a blanket ban on Syrian refugees. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evangelical-fundamentalist-non-denominational-christians-and-no-commitments-to-helping-others/779203/23 "2017-02-07T23:53:35Z")
An acquaintance was raised Particular Baptist. Apparently they don’t believe in missions, or conversion, or preaching to the unsaved, or any of that sort of thing that was (at least ostensibly) central to the kind of Christian upbringing I had. I suppose in a country with freedom of religion, and hundreds of sects, there are going to be some weird variations. And to the OP, I guess there are even going to be “Christian” sects that just ignore even the most strongly stated words of Christ in favor of following Sodom and Gomorrah down to damnation. ---
**Author:** ![greenmario](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/97f17d/32.png) [@greenmario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greenmario)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evangelical-fundamentalist-non-denominational-christians-and-no-commitments-to-helping-others/779203/24 "2017-02-08T00:03:47Z")
Charity is only charity if you’re the only one contributing. And welcoming is only welcoming if you’re the one doing it. I grew up in a Lutheran church and there was no shortage of people who would gladly volunteer at a shelter or donate to a good cause, regardless of what type of person was getting the food or money. However, most people that I know have never met a refugee. In essence they would be supporting something that only effects other people, namely the ones that claim there is a cost to admitting a large number of them. So I don’t think Christian charity is necessarily at odds with being against taking in refugees. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evangelical-fundamentalist-non-denominational-christians-and-no-commitments-to-helping-others/779203/25 "2017-02-08T00:28:23Z")
> [@greenmario](#): > > Charity is only charity if you’re the only one contributing. Wait, what? There’s no such think as collective charity? > [@greenmario](#): > > And welcoming is only welcoming if you’re the one doing it. I grew up in a Lutheran church and there was no shortage of people who would gladly volunteer at a shelter or donate to a good cause, regardless of what type of person was getting the food or money. If there was “no shortage” of people, presumably none of them were engaged in charity, since none of them was “the only one contributing”. > [@greenmario](#): > > However, most people that I know have never met a refugee. In essence they would be supporting something that only effects other people, namely the ones that claim there is a cost to admitting a large number of them. So I don’t think Christian charity is necessarily at odds with being against taking in refugees. This makes absolutely no sense at all. If Americans, collectively, pay a price to provide protection for refugees (e.g. by paying taxes through which they pay for refugee resettlement) then Americans, collectively, are engaged in an act of charity. And Americans who oppose this are saying “we should not engage in this act of charity”. And, given what the bible has to say about how you should treat the stranger among you, it will requires some nifty intellectual footwork to square that with the ethical dictates of Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![greenmario](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/97f17d/32.png) [@greenmario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greenmario)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evangelical-fundamentalist-non-denominational-christians-and-no-commitments-to-helping-others/779203/26 "2017-02-08T00:46:05Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > And, given what the bible has to say about how you should treat the stranger among you, it will requires some nifty intellectual footwork to square that with the ethical dictates of Christianity. Its not hard to square at all. The charity begins and ends with the individual. Yes, there is indeed collective charity but my contribution would be my own and you yours. IMO there nothing that says you need to project your Christian politics onto others, I think the world has had quite enough of that ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evangelical-fundamentalist-non-denominational-christians-and-no-commitments-to-helping-others/779203/27 "2017-02-08T06:26:39Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Fundamentalists are inherently under attack from their own community. While their beliefs are probably no more divorced from the original text than other sects and denominations, simply being in the minority and widely condemned is going to make them naturally insular and hateful. You know who _else_ was in the minority and widely condemned? No. Not **that** guy… try again. Here’s a hint: being in the minority and widely condemned didn’t make Him insular and hateful. Quite the opposite, in fact, or so the ancient texts tell us. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evangelical-fundamentalist-non-denominational-christians-and-no-commitments-to-helping-others/779203/28 "2017-02-08T06:44:26Z")
> [@greenmario](#): > > Its not hard to square at all. The charity begins and ends with the individual. Yes, there is indeed collective charity but my contribution would be my own and you yours. This isn’t a particularly Christian perspective, IMO. In the Christian tradition following the gospel is something we do both individually _and_ collectively. > [@greenmario](#): > > IMO there nothing that says you need to project your Christian politics onto others, I think the world has had quite enough of that I have to point out that if you take the view that only individual charity matters, and seek to have that reflected in law and public policy by, e.g., opposing the admission of refugees, aren’t you projecting _your_ Christian politics onto others? Politics - a bit like Christianity, really - is necessarily a collective endeavour. It’s not really possible to have a political stance which _isn’t_ projected onto others. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evangelical-fundamentalist-non-denominational-christians-and-no-commitments-to-helping-others/779203/29 "2017-02-08T17:01:35Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > Politics - a bit like Christianity, really - is necessarily a collective endeavour. It’s not really possible to have a political stance which _isn’t_ projected onto others. Christianity is not a collective endeavour. For instance is it okay not to give to your church as long as you vote for politicians who promise to give public money to the church? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evangelical-fundamentalist-non-denominational-christians-and-no-commitments-to-helping-others/779203/30 "2017-02-08T17:57:27Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Christianity is not a collective endeavour. For instance is it okay not to give to your church Yes > [@](#): > > as long as you vote for politicians who promise to give public money to the church? I would not vote for politicians who have that little regard for separation of church and state. ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evangelical-fundamentalist-non-denominational-christians-and-no-commitments-to-helping-others/779203/31 "2017-02-08T18:05:09Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Yes > I would not vote for politicians who have that little regard for separation of church and state. Sadly, I’m afraid that we may be on our way to losing the whole “separation of church and state” concept. Chilling! ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evangelical-fundamentalist-non-denominational-christians-and-no-commitments-to-helping-others/779203/32 "2017-02-08T21:19:03Z")
No, no, it’s fine. No one’s going to make you take refugees or tithe. All those churches that believed in Christian charity will be purged, and all will love Trump, the son of the living god. You will take his mark on the right hand and on the forehead, that you will be known as True Trumplanders, citizens of the True Trumped Trumplands of Trump. (The mark is four _T_’s forming a negative-space gammadion. It’s classy.) ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evangelical-fundamentalist-non-denominational-christians-and-no-commitments-to-helping-others/779203/33 "2017-02-09T00:43:40Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Christianity is not a collective endeavour. For instance is it okay not to give to your church as long as you vote for politicians who promise to give public money to the church? I don’t understand the relevance of the question. To support your church is, by definition, to participate in a collective endeavour. You’re contrasting two different ways of participating in the collective endeavour that is the church, and trying to suggest that the contrast somehow shows that Christianity is not a collective endeavour. That doesn’t work. FWIW, the answer to your question is; it’s fine. Germans who pay the church tax, for example, need not necessarily make further financial contributions to their churches. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evangelical-fundamentalist-non-denominational-christians-and-no-commitments-to-helping-others/779203/34 "2017-02-09T01:17:32Z")
I’m wondering if the fundamentalist and similar churches referred to by the OP, if I am understanding the post correctly, are not simply exhibiting the xenophobia culturally native to their congregations. If so, it doesn’t have much to do with Christianity at all. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evangelical-fundamentalist-non-denominational-christians-and-no-commitments-to-helping-others/779203/35 "2017-02-09T15:03:19Z")
Can we have some evidence that this is the case, before we move on to asking why? I’m (technically) affiliated with a mainline church, not an evangelical one, but I have worked overseas before, and while I was there I never failed to be impressed with the extensive work done by the Seventh-Day Adventists, for example. (Agricultural development aid was the area I was most interested in, but the do a lot of other relief and development work as well). If you mean specifically mass immigration, I would strongly _disagree_ with the application of verses like that (or other ones about ‘welcoming the stranger’) to debates over large scale immigration, including by my own church. Mass migration has very significant costs to the societies that receive immigrants (as well as in many cases to the countries that produce them), and I don’t think a healthy world conducive to human flourishing is one with large migration flows. A much better solution would be to try to equalize incomes between countries (through foreign aid, trade, and economic development) so that people don’t feel as much of a desire to move. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evangelical-fundamentalist-non-denominational-christians-and-no-commitments-to-helping-others/779203/36 "2017-02-09T15:05:22Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > It’s hard to help a refugee if the [del]Sultan[/del] President won’t let him in the country. > > I wonder how many fundamentalists really want a blanket ban on Syrian refugees. There are lots of ways to help people without allowing them into your country. You can give your money to charities that do lots of foreign aid, for a start (and governments can and should do that as much as individuals). ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evangelical-fundamentalist-non-denominational-christians-and-no-commitments-to-helping-others/779203/37 "2017-02-09T15:13:28Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > There are lots of ways to help people without allowing them into your country. You can give your money to charities that do lots of foreign aid, for a start (and governments can and should do that as much as individuals). Your suggestions help those who are refugees for simple economic reasons. These are refugees from a war zone. The only way to help them is to let them leave the warzone. Charitable foreign aid will not help in this situation. (Unless the aid includes getting them out of a war zone.) ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evangelical-fundamentalist-non-denominational-christians-and-no-commitments-to-helping-others/779203/38 "2017-02-09T17:24:28Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > I don’t understand the relevance of the question. To support your church is, by definition, to participate in a collective endeavour. You’re contrasting two different ways of participating in the collective endeavour that is the church, and trying to suggest that the contrast somehow shows that Christianity is not a collective endeavour. That doesn’t work. > > FWIW, the answer to your question is; it’s fine. Germans who pay the church tax, for example, need not necessarily make further financial contributions to their churches. Then is it okay to kill someone if you support higher taxes for crime prevention? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evangelical-fundamentalist-non-denominational-christians-and-no-commitments-to-helping-others/779203/39 "2017-02-09T17:30:41Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Then is it okay to kill someone if you support higher taxes for crime prevention? No. You have to pay the murderer tax for that. (Usually comes in the form of incarceration and fines.) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evangelical-fundamentalist-non-denominational-christians-and-no-commitments-to-helping-others/779203/40 "2017-02-09T17:36:02Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Then is it okay to kill someone if you support higher taxes for crime prevention? I believe the idea is that the Good Samaritan was wrong. He also should have “passed by on the other side” and then asked the Romans to increase welfare spending and crime prevention. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evangelical-fundamentalist-non-denominational-christians-and-no-commitments-to-helping-others/779203.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evangelical-fundamentalist-non-denominational-christians-and-no-commitments-to-helping-others/779203.md?page=3)