# Even discussion of "homophobia" makes people angry! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 13, 2004, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-discussion-of-homophobia-makes-people-angry/229094 "2004-02-13T20:18:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![anonplz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7cd45c/32.png) [@anonplz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anonplz)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-discussion-of-homophobia-makes-people-angry/229094/1 "2004-02-13T20:18:00Z")
So I’m on this other board, trying to discuss homophobia and issues with regard to gay marriage, and the moderator begins trying to stifle discussion, and finally, after discussion continues for a while, just says, “enough with ‘homophobia’! we’ve had enough discussion about that!” and he proceeds to begin closing all these threads in which we’ve been discussing it. :eek: And I have to confess, I’m getting worn out, fighting this fight. 1. how do people keep it up/stay motivated? It’s so easy to just either keep your mouth shut or sleep with the “enemy” (trying to be prosaic there, not literal, heteros). 2. what is it about even the mere discussion of the topic of homophobia which makes people so anxious? After all, people discuss all sorts of things over and over and over, in every different permutation, like racism or sexism, without censure. 3. Are there better ways to promote equal rights that I’m not doing? Threads about tits, ass and snatch all seem to be kosher, but discussion about hate and prejudice are out of bounds. 😕😃 ---
**Author:** ![labmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f19dbf/32.png) [@labmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/labmonkey)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-discussion-of-homophobia-makes-people-angry/229094/2 "2004-02-13T20:29:11Z")
Take a look at GD. You could just about throw a dart and hit any one of 42 threads about homosexuality if you want to discuss homophobia. Inevitably (call it Gaywin’s law) the chances of _any_ thread regarding this topic degenerating into a homphobia rant/discussion approach 1. Maybe the mods are trying to save the hamsters? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-discussion-of-homophobia-makes-people-angry/229094/3 "2004-02-13T20:47:19Z")
> [@anonplz](#): > > 1. what is it about even the mere discussion of the topic of homophobia which makes people so anxious? After all, people discuss all sorts of things over and over and over, in every different permutation, like racism or sexism, without censure. IANAHomophobe, but I used to be one. I would wager that talking about this specific type of bigotry makes homophobes uncomfortable because they (generally) like to think of themselves as good, God fearing people. Pointing out their bigotry makes them squirm. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-discussion-of-homophobia-makes-people-angry/229094/4 "2004-02-13T20:48:24Z")
I meant to say it makes them squirm because it points out that they might not be as good as they like to think they are. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-discussion-of-homophobia-makes-people-angry/229094/5 "2004-02-13T21:04:44Z")
> [@anonplz](#): > > , and the moderator begins trying to stifle discussion, and finally, after discussion continues for a while, just says, “enough with ‘homophobia’! we’ve had enough discussion about that!” and he proceeds to begin closing all these threads in which we’ve been discussing it. :eek: Which is why you should never go to any other board. Seriously, that is pathetic behavior, and I am glad that the mods here allow for a free range of discussion. If anything, I wish they were stricter than they are. > [@](#): > > 1. what is it about even the mere discussion of the topic of homophobia which makes people so anxious? After all, people discuss all sorts of things over and over and over, in every different permutation, like racism or sexism, without censure. > > 2. Are there better ways to promote equal rights that I’m not doing? > > Threads about tits, ass and snatch all seem to be kosher, but discussion about hate and prejudice are out of bounds. 😕😃 Putting it in terms of “homophobia” is usually unnecessary, often inaccurate and always speculative. What you’re doing is telling someone that not only do you know what they think, you know _why_ they think it. In short, you are assigning motives to someone you don’t know. That there are homophobes is undeniable. But to call everyone who is opposed to gay rights on this or that issue “phobic” is imbecilic as saying all homosexuals loiter in public restrooms looking for an anonymous quickie. If you want to discuss gay marriage (for instance), discuss the merits of gay marriage as best you can. Don’t complicate it by trying to play psychiatrist. Assume your opponents are reasonable people who mean well and are psychologically well adjusted. If they _are_ truly homophobic, pointing it out won’t help. If they are a person of genuine good will, you’ve just insulted them. In short, endeavor to befreind them. The quickest way to overcome prejudice is to introduce cognitive dissonance (I like Bob, and Bob is gay … and I hate gays. Hmmm. Something’s wrong here). If they’re idiots screaming insults at you, or buffoons, of course, you can ignore, leave or flame as you choose. But if they seem open to rational discussion and candidates for persuasion, and you start diagnosing them as “phobic,” it’s you starting the downward spiral of invective, not them. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-discussion-of-homophobia-makes-people-angry/229094/6 "2004-02-13T21:08:37Z")
Well, ‘homophobe’ is a derisive term, so once the namecalling starts, it’s hard for an intelligent debate to continue. It’s usually downhill from there. You can have an meaningful discussion about gay rights, but once the H-bomb is tossed, the rational discourse is doomed. ---
**Author:** ![MrVisible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MrVisible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrVisible)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-discussion-of-homophobia-makes-people-angry/229094/7 "2004-02-13T21:16:03Z")
Things are simplified if you refine your use of terminology. ‘Homophobia’, as **furt** pointed out, has psychological connotations which allow people to use such excuses as “I’m not phobic, I just don’t like gay people.” It’s a confusing term. Simplify your life. Refer to them as straight supremacists instead. Much more to the point. ---
**Author:** ![anonplz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7cd45c/32.png) [@anonplz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anonplz)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-discussion-of-homophobia-makes-people-angry/229094/8 "2004-02-13T21:21:12Z")
But that’s just the point! I am extremely careful never to label ANYONE, first, because it’s a violation of the board’s rules, and second, because it serves no good purpose. When I speak of homophobia, which is a real phenomenon, it is in the impersonal or about homophobic _ideas_. Second, “homophobia” is not a pejorative word - it’s a word which really describes something, unlike, say, “hatemonger” or “pig”. The feeling I get is that just the very discussion of such a controversial issue is something the moderator wants to avoid, which I feel is overstepping his authority (unless he has some sort of unspoken agreement with the board’s proprietors). ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-discussion-of-homophobia-makes-people-angry/229094/9 "2004-02-13T21:24:56Z")
Ok I’m going to get into this GD right now…but I will say one thing: My thread about Gay Marriage really threw me for a loop about how many people truly are homophobic…I’m a Psychologist, I teach psychology at a small private college in CT. I’ve taught many psych 101 classes and one point I continuously love to bring up and sometimes on occasion muse about is this. Research has found that with the majority of homophobic men there seems to be one overlying trait. That their homophobia is based in _ **AROUSAL** _!!! [Linky Linky](http://www.apa.org/releases/homophob.html) Nuff said. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-discussion-of-homophobia-makes-people-angry/229094/10 "2004-02-13T21:26:41Z")
**furt** said it better than I. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-discussion-of-homophobia-makes-people-angry/229094/11 "2004-02-13T21:30:01Z")
Err…I meant to say “…Ok I’m _NOT_ going to get into this GD right now…” ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-discussion-of-homophobia-makes-people-angry/229094/12 "2004-02-13T21:39:38Z")
I have an objection to the term - it’s saying that someone has a phobia of homosexuals, and I don’t know anyone like that. It’s an inane term that should have died as soon as it was coined. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-discussion-of-homophobia-makes-people-angry/229094/13 "2004-02-13T21:53:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Second, “homophobia” is not a pejorative word - it’s a word which really describes something, unlike, say, “hatemonger” or “pig”. It may really describe something, but that doesn’t mean that it’s always used properly. I’ve seen people that didn’t like _The Laramie Project_ get labeled as homophobes. It’s a term that’s been abused recently, because some people use it far too readily to describe “anyone that disagrees with me”. ---
**Author:** ![anonplz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7cd45c/32.png) [@anonplz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anonplz)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-discussion-of-homophobia-makes-people-angry/229094/14 "2004-02-13T22:08:58Z")
actually, in my mind, homophobia can mean fear and/or hatred of homosexuals but ALSO is associated with fear of one’s own gender. ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-discussion-of-homophobia-makes-people-angry/229094/15 "2004-02-13T22:38:27Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > I have an objection to the term - it’s saying that someone has a phobia of homosexuals, and I don’t know anyone like that. It’s an inane term that should have died as soon as it was coined. Do you have similar objections to ‘xenophobe’? ---
**Author:** ![labmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f19dbf/32.png) [@labmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/labmonkey)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-discussion-of-homophobia-makes-people-angry/229094/16 "2004-02-13T23:35:36Z")
My mistake, I should have known the OP wouldn’t have been accusing the benevolent mods and members of the SDMB. Apologies. _Bows out politely_ ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2004, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-discussion-of-homophobia-makes-people-angry/229094/17 "2004-02-14T00:45:19Z")
There’s also a lot of good old-fashioned ignorance. I got into a discussion recently about gay marriages, and someone was wondering what the couple would wear. “Which one wears the dress and veil?” she asked. It was a perfectly innocent question – although perhaps a bit inane… I suggested that both partners could wear tuxedos – because nearly _everyone_ looks good in a tux. My friend had simply gotten stuck behind a tradition, and needed a gentle nudge in the right direction. Trinopus ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2004, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-discussion-of-homophobia-makes-people-angry/229094/18 "2004-02-14T03:35:16Z")
> [@anonplz](#): > > When I speak of homophobia, which is a real phenomenon, it is in the impersonal or about homophobic _ideas_. If you’re saying that “idea X is homophobic,” it amounts to the same thing. You’re still assigning motives instead of just addressing the issue. > [@](#): > > Second, “homophobia” is not a pejorative word - it’s a word which really describes something, unlike, say, “hatemonger” or “pig”. “Racism” is a real thing, but you are abusing the term and stifling dissent if you start calling all opposition to affirmative action “racist.” Hell, “Slant-eyed” and refers to a real thing. “Spic” is simply short for “Hispanic” and “Commie” for “communist.” does this mean they aren’t pejoratives? > [@](#): > > The feeling I get is that just the very discussion of such a controversial issue is something the moderator wants to avoid, which I feel is overstepping his authority (unless he has some sort of unspoken agreement with the board’s proprietors). Okay, so the site sucks. Don’t go there anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2004, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-discussion-of-homophobia-makes-people-angry/229094/19 "2004-02-14T03:42:09Z")
The argument that anyone is a homophobe for opposing gay marriage is silly. It would be a radical new step in the world. Only formally, not in reality. The goverments of the world have been ignoring the doctrine of “Common Law” marriage with regards to gay couples for a long time. If a man and a woman lived together long enough, the state would _assume_ that they were married. Yet, if gay people get a piece of paper that allows someone to marry them legally – the moral or legal foudation of the US or world will crumble. Um, as they say, I call BS. It will allow gay partners to have basic legal rights like wills, and, everything else basically. The “slippery slope” won’t be hard to avoid. The laws against homosexual conduct have been largely unenforced. There once were criminal statutes punishing adultery. Those went unenforced, then they went away. Homosexuality is recorded throughout human history. I’m not saying it should be mandatory, just allowed. The reality of two people living together being recognized in the law is just common sense. Notarys conduct marriages, along with sea captains, and Joey on Friends. The churches will never have to change their conduct. That’s a fundamental principle of American law – you cannot _compel_ someone to do something. One might jail someone for failing to perform an affirmative duty (child support). That, of course, has nothing to do with marriage. Well, the act of forming one anyway. There is a simple line to be drawn between various sorts of conduct, it is done all the time. “Well, no, the courts never have turned a blind eye to pig intercourse in this country, or in the common law.” Much better than that crappy OP I attempted. **MODs** could you close that one. I swear, I’ll try not to post any centennial duplicate threads any more. ---
**Author:** ![sleeping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@sleeping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeping)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2004, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-discussion-of-homophobia-makes-people-angry/229094/20 "2004-02-14T04:46:39Z")
From Phlosphr’s link: [ > [@](#): > > According to this theory, viewing the male homosexual videotape may have caused negative emotions (such as anxiety) in the homophobic men, but not in the nonhomophobic men. As the authors note, ‘anxiety has been shown to enhance arousal and erection,’ and so it is also possible that ‘a response to homosexual stimuli [in these men] is a function of the threat condition rather than sexual arousal per se. These competing notions can and should be evaluated by future research.’ ]([http://www.apa.org/releases/homophob.html](http://www.apa.org/releases/homophob.html)) While the study is not wholy surprising, I’ve always thought anxiety _decreased_ sexual arousal. Anyone? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-discussion-of-homophobia-makes-people-angry/229094.md?page=2)