# Even if God exists, it is not important whether you believe in God or not **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 3, 2009, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190 "2009-02-03T01:14:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190/1 "2009-02-03T01:14:21Z")
Not to **God,** anyway. It might be psychologically (not spiritually) important to **you.** But why should God care what you think of Him, or whether you think of Him at all? Why should such as He be pleased by your worship, prayers or obedience, or disappointed by their absence? That’s like worrying about whether the ants in your farm **like** you. If God cares about religion at all, it is only because He is like a Roman emperor, and created us to fight for His amusement. That would explain a lot about human history, and even better than Original Sin would. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190/2 "2009-02-03T01:18:57Z")
Regarding your entire OP - says who? Maybe God is an insufferable narcissist, who will thwack you if you do not at least appear to be trying to kiss his ephemeral butt. Can you prove otherwise? (Presume for a moment that lack of interaction does not equate to lack of desire for praise - perhaps the god is limited in interactive capability but still likes being praised nonetheless.) ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190/3 "2009-02-03T01:22:59Z")
Because by the definition of most religions, that is implicit in the system. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190/4 "2009-02-03T01:28:40Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Can you prove otherwise? I’m just putting the idea out there. Nobody can **prove** anything regarding God. Even if the philosophical arguments coming under the heading of [natural theology](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_theology) were logically valid, which they are not, they could show only God’s existence, but nothing about His nature or desires – e.g., they could offer no grounds to choose between Christianity and Islam, no more than does [Pascal’s Wager.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_wager) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190/5 "2009-02-03T01:29:51Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Because by the definition of most religions, that is implicit in the system. So? What is that to God? ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190/6 "2009-02-03T01:35:56Z")
Concerning the OP, no God who is worthy of that title isn’t the least bit concerned if we believed in him or not. As often heard from unbelievers, he should have provided better evidence if that is truly what he wanted. If it was any kind of benevolent God at all, I realize my thoughts, no matter how much I wish for this or that, doesn’t change the outcome one iota in the end, so I don’t dwell on it. I’ve got other more positive and enjoyable thoughts to spend my time on. If it turns out a benevolent God did exist, and I was wrong after all, he’d forigive me, that’s his job. razncain ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190/7 "2009-02-03T01:36:23Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I’m just putting the idea out there. Nobody can **prove** anything regarding God. Even if the philosophical arguments coming under the heading of [natural theology](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_theology) were logically valid, which they are not, they could show only God’s existence, but nothing about His nature or desires – e.g., they could offer no grounds to choose between Christianity and Islam, no more than does [Pascal’s Wager.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_wager) So…you’re witnessing then? ---
**Author:** ![Fantome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Fantome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fantome)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190/8 "2009-02-03T01:36:55Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I’m just putting the idea out there. Nobody can **prove** anything regarding God. Okay, then how about some evidence, since you’re the one making the claim? > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Even if the philosophical arguments coming under the heading of [natural theology](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_theology) were logically valid, which they are not, they could show only God’s existence, but nothing about His nature or desires Okay? So you’re admitting your OP is bullshit? > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > So? What is that to God? WTF? It’s what the believer’s religion says about His nature, that’s what it is to God. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190/9 "2009-02-03T01:38:04Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Regarding your entire OP - says who? Maybe God is an insufferable narcissist, who will thwack you if you do not at least appear to be trying to kiss his ephemeral butt. Can you prove otherwise? (Presume for a moment that lack of interaction does not equate to lack of desire for praise - perhaps the god is limited in interactive capability but still likes being praised nonetheless.) I think you have a fiend in mind, and if that is what truly is in charge we are all still fucked, and you wouldn’t have a clue as to what this fiend wanted you to believe or not, anyway. razncain ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190/10 "2009-02-03T01:47:08Z")
> [@Fantome](#): > > Okay, then how about some evidence, since you’re the one making the claim? I suggest you look up the difference between “claim” and “proposal.” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190/11 "2009-02-03T01:48:06Z")
> [@Fantome](#): > > WTF? It’s what the believer’s religion says about His nature, that’s what it is to God. Exactly. It’s what the **believer’s religion** says. But why should God care about any of that? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190/12 "2009-02-03T01:49:07Z")
> [@Fantome](#): > > Okay? So you’re admitting your OP is bullshit? No, I’m simply proposing a hypothesis that makes more sense than the one commonly and tacitly assumed. ---
**Author:** ![Fantome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Fantome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fantome)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190/13 "2009-02-03T01:55:53Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No, I’m simply proposing a hypothesis that makes more sense than the one commonly and tacitly assumed. Assumed? God with a capital “G” cares that people believe about Him according to the Holy books. I think believers are aware of what’s written and aren’t making any assumptions about this. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190/14 "2009-02-03T01:56:50Z")
> [@razncain](#): > > I think you have a fiend in mind, and if that is what truly is in charge we are all still fucked, and you wouldn’t have a clue as to what this fiend wanted you to believe or not, anyway. > > razncain Yep - I had the Christian God in mind. 😛 (Putting aside the interventionist/noninterventionist issue, there is _clearly_ some fiendish narcissim there, by my understanding of the literature.) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190/15 "2009-02-03T01:58:23Z")
> [@Fantome](#): > > Assumed? God with a capital “G” cares that people believe about Him according to the Holy books. I think believers are aware of what’s written and aren’t making any assumptions about this. Except the big one about assuming that your god had anything to do with your holy books, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190/16 "2009-02-03T02:00:24Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > So? What is that to God? Because he set up the system and then came and told us that this is the system and that he cares. You’re making the same fallacy as intelligent designers. However improbable something might be, that doesn’t mean that its existence is impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Fantome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Fantome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fantome)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190/17 "2009-02-03T02:02:11Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Exactly. It’s what the **believer’s religion** says. But why should God care about any of that? So the point of this thread is to try to understand the mind of an omniscient god? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190/18 "2009-02-03T02:03:27Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No, I’m simply proposing a hypothesis that makes more sense than the one commonly and tacitly assumed. I think this is a losing battle - most people’s belief systems, if they include belief in God (or most other gods too), also include beliefs that your hypothesis contradicts. And, just as I will throw out the hypothesis “1 + 2 = 87234” because it contradicts with the remainder of my, um, ‘belief system’ - similarly they will throw out this hypothesis. The only people prepared to accept it are those who do not have such a contradicting belief in their belief system. As that rules out most theists (and dang near all christians), and as atheists don’t accept there is a god at all, you are left with only the tiniest audience who can even begin to consider accepting your hypothesis. ---
**Author:** ![Fantome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Fantome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fantome)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190/19 "2009-02-03T02:04:04Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Except the big one about assuming that your god had anything to do with your holy books, of course. One’s god is based on that one’s holy books. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190/20 "2009-02-03T02:04:29Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > That’s like worrying about whether the ants in your farm **like** you. Some of us are nice to our ants and don’t have to worry. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190.md?page=2)