# Even if God exists, it is not important whether you believe in God or not **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 3, 2009, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190 "2009-02-03T01:14:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190/21 "2009-02-03T02:09:38Z")
> [@Fantome](#): > > One’s god is based on that one’s holy books. No. One’s _beleifs_ about one’s god are based on one’s holy books. The reality of one’s god may be (and almost certainly is) wildly different. ---
**Author:** ![Fantome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Fantome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fantome)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190/22 "2009-02-03T02:14:03Z")
> [@Q.E.D](#): > > No. One’s _beleifs_ about one’s god are based on one’s holy books. Yeah, that’s what I meant. Happy? ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190/23 "2009-02-03T02:15:03Z")
I will be when you start saying what you mean. ---
**Author:** ![Fantome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Fantome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fantome)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190/24 "2009-02-03T02:20:52Z")
> [@Q.E.D](#): > > I will be when you start saying what you mean. I did say what I meant. One’s god is based on one’s holy books because that god doesn’t actually exist. Ya know, I’ve watched you hover around this board being a gnat on one’s ass and it’s bugged me. Now that you’re one on mine it’s a real pain in the ass. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190/25 "2009-02-03T02:21:45Z")
So **BG** you are joining my Cult of the Worshipers of God Who Doesn’t Give a Shit? We’d have regular services but none of us care enough to show either. Of course I could also make up a story that God knows that _belief_ will guide us to do Right things and therefore cares about our praise not for its own sake but for ours. Or that God is one insecure and potentially jealous critter and needs the constant reassurance. Or that the mind of God cares for its own reasons that are as far beyond us as your mind is beyond the comprehension of those ants in that farm of yours. Can a single neuron understand a brain? But does a brain need the neurons to function as they should? Who knows what might be true if God exists? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190/26 "2009-02-03T02:22:26Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Regarding your entire OP - says who? Maybe God is an insufferable narcissist, who will thwack you if you do not at least appear to be trying to kiss his ephemeral butt. Can you prove otherwise? (Presume for a moment that lack of interaction does not equate to lack of desire for praise - perhaps the god is limited in interactive capability but still likes being praised nonetheless.) I guess it is correct to say one can not prove the existence of one specific god, however, I think I can see the point of the OP, and there is evidence that we really do not mean much to the god many people are thinking about. > **[First Control of Fire by Human Beings--How Early?](https://www.beyondveg.com/nicholson-w/hb/hb-interview2c.shtml)** > > Early evidence of fire vs. skeptics; wildfires; stages in human control of fire. Poss. genetic adaptation to cooked food; lactose, gluten intolerance. > [@](#): > > Given the evidence available at this time, most of it would probably indicate that 125,000 years ago is the earliest reasonable estimate for widespread control.\*[108] of fire. If one wants to talk about human ancestors, then one has to deal with even more time: > **[Charred remains may be earliest human fires](https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn4944-charred-remains-may-be-earliest-human-fires/)** > > Archaeologists in Israel may have unearthed the oldest evidence of fire use by our ancestors. The site, on the banks of the Jordan River, dates to about 790,000 years ago. There are older sites in Africa, but the evidence from these is much more... > [@](#): > > Now Alperson and colleagues have found compelling, although not conclusive, evidence that one of our ancestors was using fire 790,000 years ago at Gesher Benot Ya’aqov. By comparison, the oldest evidence of fire control in Europe dates from around 500,000 years ago. > > The team analyzed over 50,000 pieces of wood and nearly 36,000 pieces of flint from what was once probably a Homo erectus settlement on the shores of an ancient lake. Flint was examined because it was used for tool making and shows a characteristic pitting when exposed to fire. However, just to make it simple, and because the strongest evidence shows the more human like ancestors controlling fire 125,000 years ago, I will use the latter date to say that, according to the best estimates of the faithful, 6,000 years it is a very small and very late time for the bible god to come into the picture. At best, the God you are most likely referring to was a johnny-come-lately that decided to be an insufferable narcissist instead of being helpful like Prometheus, and now he/she/it is not showing up like before.. On a more serious note, it is the whole picture of time and the vastness of the universe that has convinced me that we are even less than ants to anything that we could imagine as god in this setting, and we are not important to him/her/it. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190/27 "2009-02-03T02:27:11Z")
> [@Fantome](#): > > Ya know, I’ve watched you hover around this board being a gnat on one’s ass and it’s bugged me. Now that you’re one on mine it’s a real pain in the ass. Perhaps you can start a thread about that elsewhere. I’ll leave it as an exercise for you to determine where is appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Fantome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Fantome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fantome)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190/28 "2009-02-03T02:31:10Z")
> [@Q.E.D](#): > > Perhaps you can start a thread about that elsewhere. Nah, you’d probably enjoy that too much. I’m guessing you don’t get much attention in the real world. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190/29 "2009-02-03T02:32:46Z")
But **GIGO** what is time to God? Assuming God exists time is as malleable as matter and it may matter not. To God all may be as a moment and a specific moment may be all that matters. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190/30 "2009-02-03T02:37:32Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > But **GIGO** what is time to God? Assuming God exists time is as malleable as matter and it may matter not. To God all may be as a moment and a specific moment may be all that matters. The problem with that is the waste of “souls” that took place for god not showing up sooner, time was and is still important to us, just not to that god it seems. It is better then IMHO to realize we just continue to misunderstand the extraordinary and miraculous with the acts of that god. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190/31 "2009-02-03T02:39:02Z")
**Fantome** , DNKGWAS–particularly do not violate the rules of this Forum prohibiting personal insults based on what you, yourself, describe as an irritation. **Q.E.D.** , this place would be a lot more pleasant if you stopped poking other posters with sticks. Knock it off, the both of you. [/Modding] ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190/32 "2009-02-03T04:16:29Z")
> [@Fantome](#): > > So the point of this thread is to try to understand the mind of an omniscient god? The point of **all theology** is to try to understand the mind of an omniscient god. (Assuming the theology in question assume’s God’s omniscience, which is not universally true of theology.) ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190/33 "2009-02-03T04:20:59Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Not to **God,** anyway. It might be psychologically (not spiritually) important to **you.** But why should God care what you think of Him, or whether you think of Him at all? Why should such as He be pleased by your worship, prayers or obedience, or disappointed by their absence? That’s like worrying about whether the ants in your farm **like** you. > > If God cares about religion at all, it is only because He is like a Roman emperor, and created us to fight for His amusement. That would explain a lot about human history, and even better than Original Sin would. I like to imagine our universe is some kid’s 5th grade science project somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![PCFiend](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e495f1/32.png) [@PCFiend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PCFiend)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190/34 "2009-02-03T04:26:02Z")
Hey maybe I’m the fiend you speak of, razncain. Haha, anyways, what I find interesting is that while everyone here agrees that God means something personal to the believer, many believers feel the need to converge together to worship. This could be the result of God’s insecurity, but most likely Man’s doubt in his own belief system (which of course is addressed within said system as a “sin”). So maybe if there’s a God he doesn’t give a shit but also maybe he (or she or it, whatever) does care but assumes that free will is the ultimate judge. Agnosticism is like a yardstick for people’s imaginations, is it not? ---
**Author:** ![GameHat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ed655f/32.png) [@GameHat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GameHat)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190/35 "2009-02-03T05:15:15Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Not to **God,** anyway. It might be psychologically (not spiritually) important to **you.** But why should God care what you think of Him, or whether you think of Him at all? Why should such as He be pleased by your worship, prayers or obedience, or disappointed by their absence? That’s like worrying about whether the ants in your farm **like** you. > > If God cares about religion at all, it is only because He is like a Roman emperor, and created us to fight for His amusement. That would explain a lot about human history, and even better than Original Sin would. Nonsense. If God cares deeply about humans (having created them, after all) and if God knows that humans can only be happy when they know him, it will matter immensely whether they choose to seek him or choose to turn away. You are presupposing an impersonal and indifferent God. All the Abrahamic religions disagree with your presupposition. ---
**Author:** ![wsbenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b38774/32.png) [@wsbenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wsbenge)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190/36 "2009-02-03T05:20:44Z")
Strangely enough, it may not be important whether you believe in God, or not. Regardless of religion, faith, or lack thereof, we are tested against our own concept of morality. Belief in God has the ability to hasten one’s spiritual development. Walk, take the car, train, or plane. Matter of choices, perhaps. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190/37 "2009-02-03T05:41:41Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > I like to imagine our universe is some kid’s 5th grade science project somewhere. “Hey, Odin! Odin!” “Yah, what is it, Yahweh, ole buddy ole pal o’ mine?” “Come look what I got for my birthday! It’s a world-making kit! You can do anything with it! Look at this planet here . . . I make a race of self-aware sentients on it and [_snerk_] I made them so they have to piss and fuck with the **same organ!** And they have to **live** with that! :D” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190/38 "2009-02-03T05:44:28Z")
> [@GameHat](#): > > Nonsense. If God cares deeply about humans (having created them, after all) and if God knows that humans can only be happy when they know him, it will matter immensely whether they choose to seek him or choose to turn away. > > You are presupposing an impersonal and indifferent God. All the Abrahamic religions disagree with your presupposition. But you are making a great many more, and less plausible, assumptions. They are so obvious that I hope I don’t need to enumerate them. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190/39 "2009-02-03T05:50:18Z")
> [@wsbenge](#): > > Strangely enough, it may not be important whether you believe in God, or not. > > Regardless of religion, faith, or lack thereof, we are tested against our own concept of morality. > > Belief in God has the ability to hasten one’s spiritual development. Walk, take the car, train, or plane. Matter of choices, perhaps. It is notable that the key difference between Hinduism and Buddhism is that Buddhism is essentially atheistic. Not that Buddhism denies the gods; Gautama simply assumed, or at least never expressed recorded doubt of, the existence of the gods he was raised to worship. But, in Hinduism, all religious devotion is intended to unite the worshipper with God – “yoga” is a Sanskrit word meaning and cognate to “yoking,” that is, yoking the devotee’s soul to the divine. In Buddhism, the gods, even if real, are beside the point. You can’t get enlightenment by praying to them – they’re in the same fix **we** are, trapped in the world of Maya and strapped to the wheel of karma. You have to go above and around all of that. ---
**Author:** ![GameHat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ed655f/32.png) [@GameHat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GameHat)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190/40 "2009-02-03T06:46:29Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But you are making a great many more, and less plausible, assumptions. They are so obvious that I hope I don’t need to enumerate them. Enumerate them? I’m making three: 1. God exists 2. God created humans 3. Humans can only be happy when in a relationship with God. As I read it, the OP makes an equal number of claims without support: 4. God may exist, but doesn’t care about human opinion 5. If God cares, it is because he is a petty tyrant that cares only for his own amusement 6. God not caring much explains human history But thanks for dismissing my three claims without adressing the OP’s three claims. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-god-exists-it-is-not-important-whether-you-believe-in-god-or-not/484190.md?page=3)