# EVEN IF THERE \*IS\* A HEAVEN, why would anyone want to go there? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 17, 2002, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-there-is-a-heaven-why-would-anyone-want-to-go-there/98720 "2002-03-17T08:05:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2002, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-there-is-a-heaven-why-would-anyone-want-to-go-there/98720/1 "2002-03-17T08:05:10Z")
Some people’s idea of Heaven amuses me. They imagine a place where they will sit for all eternity and gaze upon God. There will be nothing to occupy them – nothing that needs doing. There will be nothing to distract them. They will simply _be_ in the Almighty Presence. Many of these people cannot sit quietly for five minutes without going stir crazy. They require constant entertainment when they are not busy working. And yet they actually imagine that they can not only endure, but enjoy the Eternal _Ennui._ So, even if there _ **is** _ a heaven, why would you want to go there? ---
**Author:** ![ultress](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/7c8e57/32.png) [@ultress](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultress)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2002, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-there-is-a-heaven-why-would-anyone-want-to-go-there/98720/2 "2002-03-17T08:08:37Z")
So you’ve been and experienced it and are giving us the low down? And the alternative is? ---
**Author:** ![Lyllyan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b2d939/32.png) [@Lyllyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lyllyan)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2002, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-there-is-a-heaven-why-would-anyone-want-to-go-there/98720/3 "2002-03-17T08:16:45Z")
This use to bother me, too. What could be more boring than sitting around singing to God all day? But, as you stated,this is just _Some people’s idea of Heaven_. It is not my idea of Heaven. Just as everyone envisions their god of choice in a different way, so do they envision Heaven differently. Heaven to me would be a place of great joy and happiness, surrounded by those I love, secure in the knowledge of an almighty being who loves and protects me. No death or disease, and no boredom. And lots of books. And chocolate. And I would have a perfect body. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2002, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-there-is-a-heaven-why-would-anyone-want-to-go-there/98720/4 "2002-03-17T08:30:43Z")
Read Mark Twain’s _Letters from the Earth_ for a complete critique of the Christian concept of heaven and how horrible it would be. ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2002, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-there-is-a-heaven-why-would-anyone-want-to-go-there/98720/5 "2002-03-17T08:49:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ultress \* > **So you’ve been and experienced it and are giving us the low down?** Of course not, silly. I said “some people’s idea of heaven” was amausing. Maybe you can fill me in on the details. Or haven’t you been there either? > [@](#): > > \*\*And the alternative is? \*\* Oblivion. **So far as I am concerned I am immortal; that is to say, I can’t recollect when I did not exist, and there will never be a time when I will remember that I do not exist. – Robert G. Ingersoll** ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2002, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-there-is-a-heaven-why-would-anyone-want-to-go-there/98720/6 "2002-03-17T08:56:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lyllyan \* > **…secure in the knowledge of an almighty being who loves and protects me.** Doesn’t an almighty being love and protect you _now?_ **Hey this _is_ the Pit and I’m just stirring the pot as 'twere.** ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2002, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-there-is-a-heaven-why-would-anyone-want-to-go-there/98720/7 "2002-03-17T09:01:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bryan Ekers \* > \*\*Read Mark Twain’s _Letters from the Earth_ for a complete critique of the Christian concept of heaven and how horrible it would be. \*\* I’ve worn out at least two copies. The best of Twain’s work, but, I think, less known. It wasn’t published until long after he died. Probably would have ruined him if it had been seen while he was alive. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2002, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-there-is-a-heaven-why-would-anyone-want-to-go-there/98720/8 "2002-03-17T09:08:19Z")
I guess that people who believe in heaven tend to believe its a place where they’ll be completely at peace and totally happy. The examples they give are their attempts to make these concepts concrete, and, as often happens when you try to do that, don’t tend to convey the full range of what they want them to convey. The idea is, if there is a heaven, you would want to go there, because heaven is the fufillment of all your desires and all that is good. ---
**Author:** ![ultress](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/7c8e57/32.png) [@ultress](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultress)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2002, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-there-is-a-heaven-why-would-anyone-want-to-go-there/98720/9 "2002-03-17T10:00:44Z")
Aaahhh, pardon me, I didn’t realize until I read your profile that you are an agnostic. Right. Haven’t been, but then I’m not the one spreading other people’s ideas and questioning why people would want to go to heaven. Really are just stirring the pot. Amazing. But as stated before, it is just other peoples’ idea. Not mine, so that’s why I strive to make it in. Have a good day. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2002, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-there-is-a-heaven-why-would-anyone-want-to-go-there/98720/10 "2002-03-17T10:16:46Z")
To be honest, the whole “Sit around doing nothing” idea of Heaven is something I’ve only really seen in _The Far Side_ comics. Most Christians I know picture “heaven” as a place where they actually _do_ something (varying person-to-person, of course). ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2002, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-there-is-a-heaven-why-would-anyone-want-to-go-there/98720/11 "2002-03-17T13:37:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bryan Ekers \* > \*\*Read Mark Twain’s _Letters from the Earth_ for a complete critique of the Christian concept of heaven and how horrible it would be. \*\* And read C.S. Lewis’s **The Great Divorce** for the opposing viewpoint. (It’s about a busload of people from Hell taking a bus-trip to Heaven.) Lewis, as clearly as is possible, portrays what he thinks the Christian heaven must be like and it’s very appealing (also answering many of the OP’s objections), but as talented a writer as Lewis was, that’s not surprising) The only problem is that the book bogs down at the end as Lewis’s character has a dull dialogue with his hero (writer George MacDonald). And Robert Heinlein’s **Job: A Comedy of Justice** for a _very_ funny look at what happens to the perfection of Heaven when however many-billions of yahoos are ressurected and brought there all at once (to start with, the Angels are miffed because they had to install plumbing ‘n’ toilets ‘n’ stuff.) All three books are _highly_ recommended. BTW: **Bryan** , Didn’t Twain do another “Heaven” book? \< looks \> Yeah, he did. **Captain Stormfield Visits Heaven**. I’ve never read it. Has anyone here? Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2002, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-there-is-a-heaven-why-would-anyone-want-to-go-there/98720/12 "2002-03-17T14:56:15Z")
Isn’t it funny that the one thing that almost all definitions of heaven include is an absolute perfect peace. I would consider oblivion to be the most perfect peace there is so maybe the different viewpoints aren’t quite so divergent after all.;j ---
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2002, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-there-is-a-heaven-why-would-anyone-want-to-go-there/98720/13 "2002-03-17T15:52:19Z")
When I read Dante’s “Divine Comedy” I came to the conclusion that the appeal of Heaven is a) constant happiness and b) its’ not Hell. I like being happy, but I’m not sure if I could deal with it for eternity (wasn’t there a debate about this in The Great Divorce?). I prefer to think of Heaven as a day spa. Go up, relax for a decade or two, then be reincarnated. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2002, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-there-is-a-heaven-why-would-anyone-want-to-go-there/98720/14 "2002-03-17T16:50:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fenris \* > \*\* > Yeah, he did. **Captain Stormfield Visits Heaven**. I’ve never read it. Has anyone here? > \*\* Yeah…basically in Captain Stormfield’s Visit to Heaven. Captain Stormfield goes to heaven and finds out that even though you can get wings, they’re just for show, and people get harps, but that’s only because they’ve come to expect them, that good people from all over the universe go to heaven, of all religions, and not just from earth, and that there are rankings and nobility in heaven, but it might not be what you’d expect. People like Ezekiel, and Moses, and Mohammed are ranked as prophets, but so is Shakespeare, and even greater than Shakespeare is this poet from Tennessee, who, when he was alive, never published his poems outside of town’s newspaper, and the townspeople used to laugh at them because they didn’t understand them. One of the nobles of heaven is a butcher who never made any money, because he used to give his extra meat to poor people and find them jobs, but, because he kept it secret, everybody thought he was cheap. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2002, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-there-is-a-heaven-why-would-anyone-want-to-go-there/98720/15 "2002-03-17T16:51:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DesertGeezer \* > **Oblivion.** Well that’s just motherfucking great - thanks for reminding me again of the fucking yawning oblivion that awaits me at any instant, or at a minimum is proceeding slowly but surely towards me like a rolling juggernaut. Now I need to be rocked to sleep again. [sub]This post is only half-serious - guess which half[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![ignatzmouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b2d939/32.png) [@ignatzmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ignatzmouse)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2002, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-there-is-a-heaven-why-would-anyone-want-to-go-there/98720/16 "2002-03-17T18:54:05Z")
Those who believe in heaven as merely being in the presence of God believe that that will be sufficient. They believe that boredom and impatience are qualities of our physical incarnation(yes I know it’s redundant, let it be) and that spiritual selves will have an unadulterated appreciation of God’s sublime perfection. ---
**Author:** ![JonScribe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3be4f8/32.png) [@JonScribe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JonScribe)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2002, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-there-is-a-heaven-why-would-anyone-want-to-go-there/98720/17 "2002-03-17T21:57:14Z")
Geezer, I’m sure that if you don’t like the accomodations, you can opt for oblivion. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2002, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-there-is-a-heaven-why-would-anyone-want-to-go-there/98720/18 "2002-03-17T23:04:17Z")
Author Susan Ertz (1894-1985) said it all in a famous quote: “Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon.” ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2002, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-there-is-a-heaven-why-would-anyone-want-to-go-there/98720/19 "2002-03-17T23:06:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JonScribe \* > \*\*Geezer, I’m sure that if you don’t like the accomodations, you can opt for oblivion. \*\* Why, thank you, **JonScribe** for not telling me to go to hell. ---
**Author:** ![JonScribe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3be4f8/32.png) [@JonScribe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JonScribe)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2002, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-there-is-a-heaven-why-would-anyone-want-to-go-there/98720/20 "2002-03-17T23:38:44Z")
Considering that we’re in the pit, I surprised my self. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-if-there-is-a-heaven-why-would-anyone-want-to-go-there/98720.md?page=2)