# Even in wealthy Arabic countries their militaries aren't all that effective. Why? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 23, 2008, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-in-wealthy-arabic-countries-their-militaries-arent-all-that-effective-why/460999 "2008-08-23T05:07:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2008, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-in-wealthy-arabic-countries-their-militaries-arent-all-that-effective-why/460999/1 "2008-08-23T05:07:35Z")
Even in Arabic countries with lots of cash their militaries are not really judged as being all that effective vs the militarizes of more industrialized nations. Why? If they got the cash they should be able to buy the hardware they need and train people as required. What’s missing? ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2008, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-in-wealthy-arabic-countries-their-militaries-arent-all-that-effective-why/460999/2 "2008-08-23T05:28:41Z")
Countries with great militaries are countries that NEED great militaries. How often do Saudi Arabia and Dubai and those guys ever actually need to fight anyone? Not very often. Money _cannot_ buy a great military. The only thing that will make a military great, is practice. Ask Israel. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2008, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-in-wealthy-arabic-countries-their-militaries-arent-all-that-effective-why/460999/3 "2008-08-23T05:29:01Z")
The will? Maintaining an effective military is expensive, and unless you have an immediate reason to think you might need one, there really is no good reason for a small country to bother. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2008, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-in-wealthy-arabic-countries-their-militaries-arent-all-that-effective-why/460999/4 "2008-08-23T06:15:40Z")
In a lot of Arabic countries, the military is almost a public assistance program: recruits are given a salary with little really expected of them. One reason might be that for many of the autocratic regimes, the creation of a professional military could be seen as a threat to the ruling elites (e.g. Sadat). ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2008, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-in-wealthy-arabic-countries-their-militaries-arent-all-that-effective-why/460999/5 "2008-08-23T06:19:08Z")
[QUOTE=astro] Even in Arabic countries with lots of cash their militaries are not really judged as being all that effective vs the militarizes of more industrialized nations. Why? [/QUOTE] Are they? And by whom? ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2008, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-in-wealthy-arabic-countries-their-militaries-arent-all-that-effective-why/460999/6 "2008-08-23T06:31:04Z")
[QUOTE=clairobscur] Are they? And by whom? [/QUOTE] MY statement was a general impression I’ve gotten from Arabic military performance vs Israel and the general poor regard Arabic speaking Armies are held in. I found this article which also seems to answer some of the questions in my OP. [Why Arabs Lose wars](http://www.unc.edu/depts/diplomat/AD_Issues/amdipl_17/articles/deatkine_arabs1.html) ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2008, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-in-wealthy-arabic-countries-their-militaries-arent-all-that-effective-why/460999/7 "2008-08-23T06:32:12Z")
Israel was a cornered animal. You don’t fuck with a cornered animal, i.e. something that is fighting for its very survival. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2008, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-in-wealthy-arabic-countries-their-militaries-arent-all-that-effective-why/460999/8 "2008-08-23T07:29:08Z")
[QUOTE=astro] I found this article which also seems to answer some of the questions in my OP. [Why Arabs Lose wars](http://www.unc.edu/depts/diplomat/AD_Issues/amdipl_17/articles/deatkine_arabs1.html) [/QUOTE] That article was briefly discussed in this old [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=138233). Which, I might note, you participated in :). ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2008, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-in-wealthy-arabic-countries-their-militaries-arent-all-that-effective-why/460999/9 "2008-08-23T07:42:19Z")
[QUOTE=Tamerlane] That article was briefly discussed in this old [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=138233). Which, I might note, you participated in :). [/QUOTE] Look away. Alzheimers isn’t pretty. ---
**Author:** ![Wakinyan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wakinyan/32/352_2.png) [@Wakinyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wakinyan)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2008, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-in-wealthy-arabic-countries-their-militaries-arent-all-that-effective-why/460999/10 "2008-08-23T13:45:07Z")
[QUOTE=even sven] … unless you have an immediate reason to think you might need one, there really is no good reason for a small country to bother. [/QUOTE] This isn’t the standpoint of most small countries, especially since small countries are the ones usually invaded - like Georgia. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2008, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-in-wealthy-arabic-countries-their-militaries-arent-all-that-effective-why/460999/11 "2008-08-23T23:43:30Z")
[QUOTE=Argent Towers] Israel was a cornered animal. You don’t fuck with a cornered animal, i.e. something that is fighting for its very survival. [/QUOTE] Or, as Frank Sinatra cogently put it: “Never fight a Jew in the desert.” ---
**Author:** ![Skylark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Skylark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skylark)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-in-wealthy-arabic-countries-their-militaries-arent-all-that-effective-why/460999/12 "2008-08-24T00:24:15Z")
Mostly because their NCO corps sucks. In a lot of developing countries, even non-Arab ones like India, the NCOs are treated like privates who happen to have been in a little longer. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-in-wealthy-arabic-countries-their-militaries-arent-all-that-effective-why/460999/13 "2008-08-24T02:21:17Z")
[QUOTE=astro] MY statement was a general impression I’ve gotten from Arabic military performance vs Israel [/QUOTE] Hmmm. The last war with Israel took place more than 30 years ago. You can’t indefinitely assess the value of something or someone on the basis of its performance in a more and more distant past. Plus, there has been much talk recently about Tsahal not being anymore what it used to be. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-in-wealthy-arabic-countries-their-militaries-arent-all-that-effective-why/460999/14 "2008-08-24T03:07:20Z")
[Anthony Cordesman](http://www.csis.org/component/option,com_csis_experts/task,view/id,3/) semi-regularly analyzes and updates the capabilities of the various Middle East militaries ( among others ). ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-in-wealthy-arabic-countries-their-militaries-arent-all-that-effective-why/460999/15 "2008-08-24T03:37:15Z")
[QUOTE=Tamerlane] [Anthony Cordesman](http://www.csis.org/component/option,com_csis_experts/task,view/id,3/) semi-regularly analyzes and updates the capabilities of the various Middle East militaries ( among others ). [/QUOTE] Thanks.