# even sven, please give the poverty schtick a rest **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 29, 2004, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162 "2004-11-29T16:38:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/201 "2004-12-01T02:23:01Z")
> [@TVeblen](#): > > Right. Please, tell everyone yet again how much you hate living in “Hooterville”; That’s a tongue-in-cheek name for a town I don’t want to name, for privacy reasons. > [@](#): > > how much greener the grass, more graceful the people, blah blah blah in California. California’s _nice_, okay? Blah blah blah. Texas is nice and the grass is greener there too, same with Delaware, or New Mexico, _if that’s where you’re from, and you’re homesick._ That’s all it’s about for me, so don’t make it more than it is. This is some sort of knee-jerk thing going on with you, and frankly, it’s not my problem. > [@](#): > > But your long-standing–and oft-expressed–yearning to be back in California is _your_ default preference. That’s all it ever was. _MY_ default preference, because I’m homesick. La-de-dah. I’m the first person in existence to be homesick. Because heaven knows, people who are from Oregon, or New Hampshire, they never get homesick and mention the things that they could do back home. No. It’s only Californians who do that. And _when_ they do that, it’s a secret code for “California is better than anywhere else on the entire planet.” Yes, you’ve found me out. That’s what it means. Look—I can’t imaging getting actually _pissed off_ if someone else’s default preference was Sweden, or South Dakota, and their homesickness for it, because their love for Sweden, or South Dakota, see, it takes _nothing away from me or the places I love_. So I don’t really care what other people’s “default preferences” are, and I can’t imagine why my default preference matters to anyone else either. > [@](#): > > Maybe it’s a case of imprinting and that’s fine. But that imprinting, as an artist and individual, only applies to you, not to the rich possiblities of other places. Where are you getting this from? From my post on this thread where I said how great Atlanta or New Orleans is? Give me a frickin’ break. I make a pretty innocuous comment about how some people don’t like to move a whole long way away from where everyone they know lives, and you make it into _far more_ than it ever was meant to be. I even mentioned that maybe **sven** might want to move to a neighboring state—you know, like a state that is _not_ California—because she’d still be within reasonable proximity to her family and loved ones. Obviously my whole point was that she shouldn’t _have_ to move far, far away from where she’s from. > [@](#): > > I don’t know how or what **sven** could make of anyplace as a filmaker. But Lord knows many artists manage to find not only havens but inspiration all over the damned place. And I’d like you to find some post of mine where I said that she couldn’t. It just seemed a little extreme to me for people to suggest that she move so far away from where she’s spent most of her life, _in case that’s not something she wants to do_. If she was currently living in Oklahoma I’d say the same thing—if she didn’t want to move away from her family living in Oklahoma City, well, man, I’d be totally supportive of that too. That’s _all_ I was saying and you want to make it far more than it is. You found offense where none existed. ---
**Author:** ![drpepper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8baadc/32.png) [@drpepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drpepper)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/202 "2004-12-01T02:34:26Z")
> [@](#): > > Man, I’ve missed you. Have you been lurking, or have I just not seen your posts? Glad someone else noticed; Manda Jo’s rocks. All her posts positively spill over with common sense. ---
**Author:** ![drpepper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8baadc/32.png) [@drpepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drpepper)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/203 "2004-12-01T02:35:38Z")
“Manda Jo’s rocks”… duh… make that: _Manda Jo rocks._ ---
**Author:** ![Diane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2acd7d/32.png) [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/204 "2004-12-01T03:00:40Z")
Hey, if my friend’s boyfriend can win the LA Film Critics Choice Award for best Indy with his little film he shot here in Salt Lake City and Beaver Utah, you can make a movie anywhere. > **[The Beaver Trilogy (2000) - IMDb](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0256639/)** > > The Beaver Trilogy: Directed by Trent Harris. With Groovin' Gary, Sean Penn, Crispin Glover, Stefan Arngrim. In 1979, filmmaker Trent Harris visits the small town of Beaver, Utah to film a talent show. Impressed by a performer called Groovin' Gary,... ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/205 "2004-12-01T03:09:02Z")
Uh, **Diane?** The IMDb page you linked to has a review on the front page proclaiming _The Beaver Trilogy_ “The worst movie I have ever seen.” Just so’s you know. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/206 "2004-12-01T03:25:05Z")
> [@yosemite](#): > > … This is some sort of knee-jerk thing going on with you, and frankly, it’s not my problem. > That’s all it ever was. _MY_ default preference, because I’m homesick. La-de-dah. I’m the first person in existence to be homesick. Because heaven knows, people who are from Oregon, or New Hampshire, they never get homesick and mention the things that they could do back home. No. It’s only Californians who do that. And _when_ they do that, it’s a secret code for “California is better than anywhere else on the entire planet.” Yes, you’ve found me out. That’s what it means. > … > And I’d like you to find some post of mine where I said that she couldn’t…That’s _all_ I was saying and you want to make it far more than it is. **You found offense where none existed.** Give it a rest. Yeah, we GOT it, already. You’re homesick. You hate Hooterville and eveyrthing about it. You want to live in California, but can’t or won’t make that happen. That’s your issue. I didn’t read offense into a damned thing. You did, from a casual–and justified–aside that your oft-repeated prejudice for California, and California alone, has a well established context vs. **sven’s** possiblities. You’re someone–an artist and an individual–who didn’t transplant well. **sven** , also an artist, might find other soil and people remarkably fertile to nuture her life and art. I don’t KNOW where **sven** could nurture her dream. Maybe her strength and vision have deep roots in one particular place. Maybe she’s the Woody Allen of Santa Cruz, who can only survive and thrive in a very narrow frame. But maybe she, and her hopes, could flourish in Maine. Or Atlanta. Or Vancouver, the Punjab or Provence or where the HELL ever. Maybe she would/could transplant well, or at least consider the rich possiblities of the whole rest of the planet. I offered a counterview to your limited scope. Bite me. You aren’t the issue at hand. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/207 "2004-12-01T03:34:29Z")
**TVeblen** , I read her post as more of a “don’t pick up and move to completely alien surroundings when you’re depressed” kind of thing. In other words, move out of the area you’re at, but make sure there’s still some of the familiar to comfort you. Not as a “Hooterville sux” kind of thing. ---
**Author:** ![lel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8797f3/32.png) [@lel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lel)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/208 "2004-12-01T03:36:23Z")
> [@TVeblen](#): > > I don’t know how or what **sven** could make of anyplace as a filmaker. But Lord knows many artists manage to find not only havens but inspiration all over the damned place. > It’s a big ol’ world out there and–IMO– **sven** would be foolish to cramp her possibilities by any false boundary: city, state, region or country. While the sentiment is admirable that one can do whatever one wishes wherever, it looks like even if **even sven** wants to stay in CA, Sacramento is a whole lot cheaper and only 150 miles away, a perfectly reasonable distance for a weekend day trip to Santa Cruz to visit friends or whatever. About eating correctly, to be blunt, there’s a future cost/benefit ratio there too. Do you want to spend money now to eat better, or healthcare costs and lost wages five years from now (or even next year, or tomorrow) caused by bad eating habits? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/209 "2004-12-01T03:36:36Z")
A film that was very popular with the Waterwalker Film Festival a few years ago was made by a fellow who filmed his multi-month solo canoe trip across the Canadian arctic. It was as low budget as it gets. Basically a handful of beans a day to supplement fish caught along the way, an old wind up 16mm, and some film. It was a truly riveting film, for he offered many insights into his world as he paddled along day after day. Of course he gradually went nuts in the process, which added to the film. But more to the point, if you want to make a film, then make a film. If you are creative enough, you will not have to look far for a project that is within your budget, even if that budget is a shoestring. Sitting in a dead end job will not lead you anywhere. What’s the worst that could happen if you take a shot? You might fail and end up in a dead end job? You’re already there, so there is nothing to lose. And whether or not you turn out a good film, perhaps the project will be beneficial for you simply because it gets you out doing something you enjoy. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/210 "2004-12-01T03:46:36Z")
> [@TVeblen](#): > > Give it a rest. Yeah, we GOT it, already. You’re homesick. And my feelings about home take _NOTHING_ away from any other part of the country, so I don’t understand why you give a shit, or why you translate my personal feelings of “homesick” into “Everyone should agree that California is the _best place ever_.” _You_ projected that onto my posts, particularly on this thread, and it has never existed. Never existed. You brought it up, not me. That’s _your_ problem, not mine. > [@](#): > > I didn’t read offense into a damned thing. Like hell you didn’t. > [@](#): > > I offered a counterview to your limited scope. Oh, the “limited scope” where I said that Atlanta and New Orleans are great places? _What?_ Just because I had the _audacity_ to suggest that someone maybe shouldn’t _have_ to move 1000+ miles away, because they might miss loved ones? Is _this_ such a radical, groundbreaking, stifling concept that nobody’s ever brought up before? The idea that maybe, just perhaps, even though Atlanta and New Orleans and other parts of the country are great, and yeah, it works really great for some people to move far away, that _maybe_, just _maybe_, it might not work great for _everyone?_ That’s what this is all about? > [@](#): > > Bite me. Oh no, you aren’t _offended_—not at all. > [@](#): > > You aren’t the issue at hand. No, I’m not. So why did you bring up something that _never existed_ in the content of my posts? And I see in preview that others didn’t misunderstand my intent. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/211 "2004-12-01T04:04:14Z")
> [@yosemite](#): > > No, I’m not. So why did you bring up something that _never existed_ in the content of my posts? Maybe it’s because **TVeblen** has read, oh, any one of the rest of your 8,522 posts? ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/212 "2004-12-01T04:11:12Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > Maybe it’s because **TVeblen** has read, oh, any one of the rest of your 8,522 posts? Please copy and paste where I said that **sven** shouldn’t leave California because it’s _California_, instead of because perhaps she wouldn’t want to move so far away from family, loved ones and home. Please. Copy and paste. Is or is that not the content of **TVeblen** ’s complaint against my contributions on thsi thread? That I was trying to stifle **sven** and suggest that perhaps no where else would be as good? I believe that’s what this is _supposed_ to be about, not about me, or my personal feelings. So, I ask again: copy and paste. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/213 "2004-12-01T04:12:35Z")
Quotes from **lel** and **Guinistasia** : > [@](#): > > While the sentiment is admirable that one can do whatever one wishes wherever, it looks like even if even sven wants to stay in CA, Sacramento is a whole lot cheaper and only 150 miles away, a perfectly reasonable distance for a weekend day trip to Santa Cruz to visit friends or whatever. > [@](#): > > TVeblen, I read her post as more of a “don’t pick up and move to completely alien surroundings when you’re depressed” kind of thing. In other words, move out of the area you’re at, but make sure there’s still some of the familiar to comfort you. > > Not as a “Hooterville sux” kind of thing. Considering moving to a more affordable area that’s still within the region is a fine idea/option for **sven**. Lord knows the woman needs to reduce the financial pressures she’s living under. Maybe that alone would be enough to kick-start her creative juices–and means to act on ‘em, while still enjoying the security of friends and family. But, fwiw, I’ve gotten the impression **sven** has a powerful hunger for broader horizons. Wimps don’t seize a once-in-a-lifetime chance at exploring India. She just seems to suffering a disconnect integrating "somewhere else’ and producing art from it. She’s wandered to India. Living the life as an artist in US seems to be her problem. I haven’t the faintest idea where **sven** would find that resounding inner ‘click’–and the gritty follow-through to bring it to life. Maybe it would be an exploration of thwarted dreamers; a cinematic “Working”, heir to the spirit of Studs Terkel’s classic. But she won’t know what might shape her dreams, or take control of carrying them through, if she puts false limits on herself. If Sacremento is the first step to realizing her dream, fine. But seems to me the first challenge is figuring out how to _live_ while producing good art. Both are matters of skill and scope. Believing one can only produce excellent work under carefully circumsbribed conditions is a sure formula for failure. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/214 "2004-12-01T04:41:32Z")
You know, before this hijack is put to rest (for good), I’d like to address this more specifically: > [@](#): > > You hate Hooterville and eveyrthing about it. Well, actually, if people had read _all_ of my 8000+ posts, they’d know that this is not entirely true. I compliment it, and its inhabitants, on occasion. I also have taken pains to say (more than a few times) that it’s very likely a _great_ place for many people, and that I can understand why people who grew up there would love it. Lots to love, just not for everyone, because one size does not fit all. It seems that to some people, “homesick” is interpreted to mean that “everyone should love the place that I miss,” but it doesn’t mean that at all. Also, people can rag on a place without meaning that _everyone_ else should hate it too. Lord knows that plenty of people discover that California is not for them, and you know what? I don’t care! Their dislike for California takes absolutely _nothing_ away from me, so why should I give a damn? I have no idea why anyone else gives a damn what I think either. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/215 "2004-12-01T04:45:25Z")
Yosemite, Veb…please- and I am only saying that because I care - there’s a lot of decaffeinated brands on the market that are just as tasty as the real thing. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/216 "2004-12-01T04:47:49Z")
> [@yosemite](#): > > You know, before this hijack is put to rest (for good), I’d like to address this more specifically… This is at rest, period. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/217 "2004-12-01T04:48:19Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Yosemite, Veb…please- and I am only saying that because I care - there’s a lot of decaffeinated brands on the market that are just as tasty as the real thing. Bless your heart. You made me laugh. This _is_ the: Stupidest. Hijack. Ever. Is it not? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Diane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2acd7d/32.png) [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/218 "2004-12-01T05:07:16Z")
> [@Ilsa\_Lund](#): > > Uh, **Diane?** The IMDb page you linked to has a review on the front page proclaiming _The Beaver Trilogy_ “The worst movie I have ever seen.” Just so’s you know. 😉 Heh, yeah I saw that. 🙂 It’s actually an entertaining little flick. IIRC, it was Sean Penn’s very first movie role and one of Crispen Glover’s firsts as well. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/219 "2004-12-01T05:33:50Z")
> [@drpepper](#): > > **Manda Jo’s rocks**. Band name. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/220 "2004-12-01T05:53:40Z")
Sven, I’m going to be graduating in May with a BA in English and a minor in Creative Writing. One worthless degree wasn’t enough for me, you see. I’ve been living in So Cal for the past 4 years, and I know how difficult it must be for you to make ends meet in Santa Cruz. Before living in So Cal, I lived in the Bay Area. Trust me, I know where you’re coming from. So I’m getting the fuck out of California. I know that I simply cannot live comfortably, pay my bills, and live in So Cal. I’ve looked into and applied to schools that are in affordable areas with excellent reputations. I would second moving to Utah. Think about all of the beautiful scenery you can use for inspiration. The Wasatch Mountains, Weber River, the Provo Falls, Bryce National Park, the ski slopes, The Great Salt Lake, the Salt Flats. The best thing? Park City is just as much a part of “The Industry” as Los Angeles. I’ve actually met more “famous” and “important” people in Park City than I’ve ever seen in So Cal. Ok, well, this is the best part: The cost of living is cheap. Look at prices in Salt Lake City. Marvel at the affordable rent. Swoon at the great locations. Parts of this thread makes me uncomfortable because it seems everybody is interested in planning your life. I know that I’m contributing to that, in my own way. I just wanted to post because I’m not high and mighty on my successful pedestal. I’m still in the trenches, I’m still accumulating “worthless degrees” and I still have to live with the fact that right now there’s only time for work, not time to create. I’m not looking back and remembering “the good ol days.” I’m living them. Right now, I know the best thing for me is to move to a state that’s more friendly towards young artists and students who can’t afford to rent an apartment for the same amount some spend on mortgages. Anyway, I hope things work out for you. I hope things work out for all of us who are graduating or have just graduated with art degrees. I know you know it’s nothing but work, and believe me, I know about losing the drive to create something. Maybe you just need a change of scenery or a relief from the stress you feel. Maybe it’s just that simple. Take care of yourself and your most basic needs first. Make sure you’re still able-bodied when it’s time to make your first short… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162.md?page=12)