# even sven, please give the poverty schtick a rest **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 29, 2004, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162 "2004-11-29T16:38:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/21 "2004-11-29T17:26:03Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > Nonsense, one can complain here about anything. The catch is that if you’re complaining about a problem of your own making, then you can’t expect a pity party without the question of personal responsibility being raised. I’m sorry, gobear, but it has been Noted and Discussed by myself and others via email and in IRL that it is sheer folly to complain about anything on the SDMB and expect a sympathetic response, unless you’re complaining about some political or cultural thing that gets people on your side because of their political/cultural sympathies. Certainly most personal complaints rapidly evokes a huge finger-pointing response toward the complainer. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/22 "2004-11-29T17:28:27Z")
> [@fruitbat](#): > > Own Ipods > Go to India for three months without being paid for it > Subscribe to Netflix > Choose to live in one of the most expensive areas in the country You forgot: Have internet connections, and the time to use them to bitch. ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/23 "2004-11-29T17:35:37Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > I’m sorry, gobear, but it has been Noted and Discussed by myself and others via email and in IRL that it is sheer folly to complain about anything on the SDMB and expect a sympathetic response, unless you’re complaining about some political or cultural thing that gets people on your side because of their political/cultural sympathies. Certainly most personal complaints rapidly evokes a huge finger-pointing response toward the complainer. mmmm…sorta. Empathy is, of course, somewhat dependent on someone else having had the same experience. OTOH, I think sometimes we cut people too much slack. The complainer IS responsible for at least their participation in almost every situation. And who else is responsible for and capable of fixing it if not them? I seem to remember back in my philo days that it wasn’t really possible to draw a distinction between the knower and the known. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/24 "2004-11-29T17:36:20Z")
> [@fruitbat](#): > > Ugghh. Mods, could you fix my execrable coding. [hijack] FTR, I believe what you did was post the links, hit “preview”, C&Ped that into Word (or something else to spellcheck), and C&Ped that back into the browser. Correct? That just destroys the links, because the browser will automatically parse them into a managable length. Next time, start in Word (or whatever WP program you use), and \*then \* C&P it into the browser (if you’re that adament about using a spellchecker). [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/25 "2004-11-29T17:37:53Z")
> [@LaurAnge](#): > > Just for the heck of it, some background threads, with no ill-will on my part: > > [even sven quits a job](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=127663) > [even sven is depressed](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=142646) > [even sven is unhappy about her prospects after graduating](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=190006) > [even sven has a lot of life experience](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=193110) > [even sven quits another job](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=198231) C’mon, the life experience OP alone was highly memorable, including the “I’ve never been to me” sequence: _“I grew up in the ghetto. I’ve seen people get stabbed. I’ve lost friends to drugs. I saw my freaking dad become a drug addict. I’ve gone hungry. I’ve helped sixteen year olds get through post-abortion cramps. I’ve lived without electricity until the next paycheck. I’ve traveled on my own to at least ten different countries. I have plenty of sex with various people, places and things that I’ll never tell anyone.”_ I don’t think we ever found out what places and things **even sven** had “plenty of sex” with. Hoover Dam? An artichoke? India?? ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/26 "2004-11-29T17:39:46Z")
Perhaps my lack of advanced math training is catching up with me, but I cannot, for the life of me, figure how lolligaging around India for 3 months results in more income and $$ than working in the US for the same amount of time. Regardless, a trip to India is a luxury that most people will never get to enjoy. Having that experience, and then bitching about how poor you are makes my gag reflex kick in. Any other person would have seen the living conditions in India, got some perspective, returned to the USA and thanked their lucky stars for the luxury they enjoy every day. Barf. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/27 "2004-11-29T17:39:53Z")
[even sven quits another job](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=198231) Fixed link ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/28 "2004-11-29T17:43:35Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > Certainly most personal complaints rapidly evokes a huge finger-pointing response toward the complainer. Ridiculous. Sometimes it happens, but most of the time it doesn’t. There are threads all over the place here bitching about crappy customers and people ring in with their own stories. There are threads dealing with a crappy thing that the SO does and people either give sympathy or chime in with their own stories of crappy things their SO did. People bitch about crappy relatives during the holidays with nary a word. **Even sven** is being Pitted right now because she makes a reference to her crushing poverty at every opportunity, but has refused any and all help at helping to get her a decent job. She’s being pitted because she wants to have her cake and eat it, too. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/29 "2004-11-29T17:55:24Z")
I’d like for this not to be a Pitting as much as an Encouragement to **Even Sven** to seize control of her life and to stop being a victim of the universe’s tendency to randomness. Yes, being poor blows, but being broke in your early 20s can teach you self-reliance, thrift, and adaptability to unpleasant circumstances. I believe **Even Sven** will eventually rise up above adversity, but like Dorothy, she has to learn that she had strength inside her all along. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/30 "2004-11-29T17:59:30Z")
Man, I think I got a little _too_ excited when I saw this thread. **even sven** and **Incubus** are currently neck and neck for the coveted SDMB “Whinest Bitch On The Boards” award. It wouldn’t be that bad if they weren’t bitching about the _same damn things_ over and over again and consistently ignoring the advice that’s given to them, then coming back again a week later to bitch some more about the _same damn things_. It’s kind of like having a pounding headache, refusing to take anything for it, and proceeding to whine and complain all fucking day long about it to anyone who’ll listen about your horrible headache. Either take some goddamn Advil or shut the fuck _up_! ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/31 "2004-11-29T17:59:59Z")
Well, whatever happens in the thread, I’ve got to say that “the job fairy has failed to make a house call” has got to be my new favorite phrase. Thanks for the laugh. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/32 "2004-11-29T18:00:10Z")
Shoot, that crazy rich guy job would’ve gotten a LOT of sympathy from me. Most of the jobs I had were like that in at least some respects (most of them were temp assignments, so that made it survivable). Employers do expect you to read their minds, and they don’t give you the tools you need to achieve their goals. It’s sort of the opposite of school, in fact; nobody’s set it up to allow you to succeed, much less thrive. And that’s kind of mind-boggling. My Hubby is having a devil of a time now, but in school he was one of the golden boys - HS valedictorian, summa cum laude BS, Ph.D. via a prestigious scholarship. And right now he’s lost. He can’t figure out the game. Perhaps that’s sven’s problem as well? ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/33 "2004-11-29T18:21:47Z")
I have a lot of respect for people who follow their passion, but a lot of that respect is due to the less financially-secure life it entails. My passion has always been music, but I decided to compromise and become an engineer. I’ve kept doing music for thirty years now. If you’ve got passion, you can do both. It requires compromises, but you can’t escape compromise whatever course in life you choose. A friend of mine who I perform with is doing it full-time. It’s a rough life, and I wouldn’t trade places with him. And he’s at least as accomplished as I am. But I’ve never heard him complain that the world owes him gigs. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/34 "2004-11-29T18:38:02Z")
I think the basis of the problem is that Sven has decided that “poor” is a quality that one either has or doesn’t have. If you are “poor” you have money problems, get thrown out of apartments, can’t find work, etc. But this is nonsense. All you have to do is get a better job. Or move to a cheaper place. Or find roomates. Or whatever. Poor is not an identity. But sven has decided that she’s poor, so all the proposed remedies won’t work for her…she’s poor! And that will never change somehow. And it’s all mixed up with some silly class solidarity issues she’s got, and her depression, and on and on. I lived my whole twenties working part-time jobs and making next to no money because it gave me the free time to do things I wanted to do. Sometimes it sucked that I didn’t have a car, or couldn’t go see a movie, or had to go to the library if I wanted to use a computer. But deep down I knew it was a choice on my part. Sven won’t accept that her choices are choices. She thinks that poorness was imposed on her, and there’s nothing she can do about it. Well, if you don’t speak english, or couldn’t graduate from high-school, or can’t work legally here, or are a minor, or are physically disabled, or have severe mental problems, then it is imposed on you and there isn’t much you can do about it. As far as I can see none of these are true in Sven’s case. ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/35 "2004-11-29T18:53:31Z")
_Argue for your limitations and sure enough, they’re yours._ - Richard Bach ---
**Author:** ![jlzania](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jlzania](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jlzania)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/36 "2004-11-29T19:01:56Z")
I have no ill will towards **even sven** either. Don’t know enough about her to feel any animosity one way or the other. However, I have noticed that every message board, no matter how large or small, seems to have a poster or two that share the same characteristics. If they start a thread, it is usually only to complain about the same issues over and over again. Doesn’t really matter what advice you offer them because they’re not ready or willing to make the changes necessary to improve their lives. They’re not so much looking for help as a shoulder to cry on while someone mutters “Poor dear, poor dear.”. If they post in someone else’s thread, they normally manage to inject a woeful addendum that incorporates the aforementioned complaint. I call them the Agony Aunts because nothing really positive happens to them that outweighs the negative. Personally, I think it stems from a twofold problem: 1) they tend to be rather self-absorbed and 2) they also tend to have a strong sense of entitlement. However, in no way are their choices ever responsible-it’s always bad luck or a system that’s rigged against them. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/37 "2004-11-29T19:07:29Z")
Funny this thread just popped up…I mentioned the situation in **Incubus’** concurrent Pit thread. The point I made there bears repeating here, I think: namely that even a person with a BFA or a BA in philosophy ought to be able to find something more livable, although adjustments might need to be made. Could she earn as much as a BSEE or an MBA? Of course not. But could she do better than minimum wage? I think so, if she really wanted to. ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/38 "2004-11-29T19:13:15Z")
_Argue for your limitations and sure enough, they’re yours._ - Richard Bach ---
**Author:** ![Boldface\_Type](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5e925/32.png) [@Boldface\_Type](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boldface_Type)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/39 "2004-11-29T20:26:22Z")
> [@fessie](#): > > _Argue for your limitations and sure enough, they’re yours._ > > - Richard Bach Argue for them twice, and get the third limitation totally free! ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/40 "2004-11-29T20:28:35Z")
This is about the third pitting of **even sven** over the last couple of years. It will probably be about the third time that she will respond by promising no more “poor me” threads. I hope that it will actually take this time. Haj [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162.md?page=3)