# even sven, please give the poverty schtick a rest **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 29, 2004, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162 "2004-11-29T16:38:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/61 "2004-11-29T21:57:08Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > What’s the second rule? The second rule? NEVER. PUT. YOUR. OWN. MONEY. IN. THE. SHOW! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/62 "2004-11-29T21:58:21Z")
> [@passengerpigeon](#): > > Perhaps more to the point, what the fuck is wrong with you people? What’s wrong with us? Mainly that we’re not spoiled adolescents, angry at the world because everything doesn’t work out exactly like we want it to. We go out and make lives for ourselves and realize that our own choices are more often than not the cause of our particular circumstances. BTW, I know plenty of people who live in Santa Cruz and make damn good money. I also know some people who live there and barely get by because they actually are more happy surfing than they are working. So they surf and hold whatever jobs they can, and wouldn’t trade places with anyone. But none of them moan and bitch on a message board about how life is unfair. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/63 "2004-11-29T22:01:13Z")
> [@passengerpigeon](#): > > We recognize that Santa Cruz is a stupid place to live, but we did all go to school here, and if we **hadn’t been lagging around after we got out** , we’d never have met each other. That’s helpful to know. > [@](#): > > Many of you are assholes. I’d like to think you know who you are, but I’m incurably optimistic. And many of us have been incurably optimistic to give **sven** our life experiences in GETTING OUT of poverty instead of joining the wallowing session. Who’s the asshole here? > [@](#): > > Everybody who said that there must be better jobs in Santa Cruz and that she’s just not trying hard enough can take a flying fuck at everybody who said that going to India proves she can’t be poor. It is kind of fascinating to see so many people living in alternate realities, though. Do any of you live in famous ones, like where the Nazis won or something? How do you get Internet access to the real world, where Santa Cruz is drastically oversupplied with worthless labor and living in India is essentially free? The Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Forget it, he’s rolling. > [@](#): > > It’s clear, John\_Mace, that you are a fucking cock, based on your willingness to make absurd, unwarranted and inaccurate inferences about people based on your most likely flawed understanding of their Internet presence, so I won’t belabor the point. Allow me to just assure you that sven doesn’t consider working an inconvenience except inasmuch as everybody would consider working a shit-ass menial job one doesn’t enjoy for fuck-nothing wages while in possession of an actual honest-to-goodness college degree which theoretically is supposed to qualify you to get the kind of rewarding and enjoyable employment which doesn’t appear to even fucking exist an “inconvenience.” I find it hard to believe that even you would kiss the rod in that instance. You arrogant fucking cock. And you just assumed that **John Mace** never worked a menial job, pretty much like the rest of us in some aspect? You’re killing me, dude. > [@](#): > > Fruitbat, upon reading your suggestion that going to college to study philosophy is essentially worthless, and the immediate implication that the only worthwhile fields of academic study are those which immediately lead to big, exciting industries and that the liberal arts aren’t worth a pot to fucking piss in, I feel it is only my duty to note that you, and people like you, are exactly what is wrong with this country, and exactly what is causing the great American slide away from culture, away from values, and away from being the Land of Fucking Opportunity Where Everybody Can Do What They Want To If They Try Really Hard, and into being a barren, desolate Blade-Runnerish corporate state where we will all slave like, well, slaves, for the great military-industrial complex as it grinds our souls into the dirt. While you sneer at anybody with the slightest desire to learn something not immediately renumerative, the bubbles are bursting, and the people who learned Computer Science while I learned Theatre are selling vacuum cleaners and grading standardized tests, further putting paid to your unbelievable attitudes. Please leave at once and never come back; you are robbing America of what makes it great. I don’t like you and do not want you in my country, which is supposed to be a good place to live. > > –p As a BS grad in Math/CompSci/Geography which epitomizes a souless slave in your “Blade-Runnerish” corporate slave state, who on a whim decided to start a business up working the Developmental Disabled population in one of the most expensive states of the U.S., where IOU’s were being dispensed by the state in 1992, and yet STILL SUCCEEDED by his own hard work, proper decision making and well balanced priorities, I say to you…“What the fuck are you talking about?” ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/64 "2004-11-29T22:02:05Z")
> [@Ilsa\_Lund](#): > > The second rule? NEVER. PUT. YOUR. OWN. MONEY. IN. THE. SHOW! Ah, I got the line wrong. Oh, well, I can still sing “Keep It Gay” from memory… ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/65 "2004-11-29T22:02:05Z")
**even sven** and **PassengerPigeon** , I think you are misreading most of the posts in this thread. Both of you posted detailed explanations for specific choices you’ve made. The issue is not what choices you’re making. The issue is the way you talk about those choices, or the consequences of those choices, here. I truly do know where you’re coming from. My sister, who I adore and deeply respect, studied theatre in college and has spent the last ten years trying to make a career out of it. She has also lived in abject poverty and worked incredibly shitty jobs while doing so. I know how tough it is to have no money in our consumer culture, and I’ve seen how tough it is to have to give up money and security when what you love to do isn’t valued by our consumer culture. However, the fact remains that following one’s dream is a lifestyle choice, not a law of nature. And poverty by choice is simply a much less tragic situation than poverty with no alternatives and little chance of escaping. The more you post about how hard your life is without clearly taking responsibility for the fact that you’ve chosen to be poor in order to follow your dream, the more you come across, to put it nicely, badly. On message boards, how you say things and how often you say them can be more significant than what you say. ---
**Author:** ![5que](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/3bc359/32.png) [@5que](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5que)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/66 "2004-11-29T22:02:29Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > What’s the second rule? Sell a bunch of percentages to little old ladies, then find a really bad script so it’ll lose money. You know, maybe something written by a Nazi… ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/67 "2004-11-29T22:11:38Z")
> [@Ilsa\_Lund](#): > > The second rule? NEVER. PUT. YOUR. OWN. MONEY. IN. THE. SHOW! I set em up, you knock em down. I like the third line they ad-libbed. “It’s Taboo.” ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/68 "2004-11-29T22:16:08Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > I’m not going to stop posting my views on economics from the bottom of the spectrum, because I think it’s something that most dopers (who are, pretty much, people who have jobs that let them surf the web at work) don’t see. But I’ll stop bringing myself into it so much. Sven, I’m going to answer this one in all seriousness. I’m 37 years old, middle/upper middle class income-wise, and probably fairly typical of those of us here who “have jobs that let them surf the web at work”, and I gotta tell you, I didn’t just materialize into suburbia from the ether, wondering mightily at the Volvo and the SAAB in the two car garage behind the white picket fence surrounding my house and 2.4 chilluns (actually, I have none of those specific things, but bear with me. Artistic license. I’m going for a mood). I spent my time in college, got out and worked crappy jobs, worked better jobs, then finally got my current job. I never inherited 20K, and in fact I ran up quite a bit of debt, which I am in the final stages of ruthlessly paying off. I lived in basement apartments, ate Ramen noodles and for a couple of years, had to hitchhike to work and school because I had no car. I’ve been there. I dare say most of us have been there. You’re assumption that your “views on economics from the bottom of the spectrum” are “something that most dopers…don’t see” is _laughable_. We’ve been there and found that the way out isn’t socialism, or communism, or anarchy or economic revolution or whatever it is that you’re advocating these days (I’m really not sure), it’s hard work. HARD WORK and PERSISTENCE, coupled with a willingness to eat shit for a couple of years as the cost of the journey CAN and WILL get you anything you want (within reason) in this country. Still. Today. Even in spite of all of the nasty corporations hell bent on chewing your poor proletariat ass up and spitting it out. :rolleyes: We know this because we’ve done it, so please, spare us your “wisdom”, when stacked up against our experience it is easy to see which one works in the real world, and which one is just an excuse. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/69 "2004-11-29T22:16:50Z")
I don’t know anything about even sven besides what I’ve read here (and I’m not judging her from this because I don’t know anything about her besides what I’ve read here…etc.) but reading this thread reminds me of when my friend went to the doctor for a fast heartbeat. The doc told him to quit smoking so much and drinking so much caffeine. My friend’s response? He yelled: > [@](#): > > WHY SHOULD _I_ HAVE TO STOP DRINKING CAFFEINE AND SMOKING?! _YOU’RE_ THE DOCTOR!!! And stormed out. That was maybe ~5 years ago and - somehow in his twisted little mind - this line of reasoning still makes perfect sense to him. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/70 "2004-11-29T22:21:55Z")
I don’t know what movie you guys must be referencing, but I figured the first law of show business is to always get a portion of the gross, not the net. ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/71 "2004-11-29T22:22:14Z")
**even sven** , the most important advice I got in college was this: you have to pull your own weight in this world, 'cause there ain’t nobody gonna do it for you. Feeling sorry for yourself is one of the most useless emotions humans are capable of feeling. Wallowing in sorrow is just mental masturbation. If you spent half the time working your _ass_ off to better your situation that you do bitching about how bad you’ve got it, you’d be getting soemwhere. Fuck your inheritance. Spend it on getting a better life _now_, rather than later. $20,000 is chump change. You get even a mediocre middle-class job and you can put that away in five to ten years. Buy a cheap car. Buy food. Get the things you need to succeed. Otherwise, your situation reads like this: “I’m so poor, I have to sleep on plywood I stole from a construction site. Only, it has nails in it, so I have to be a contortionist not to get punctured. I have to eat raw potatoes, and the rats won’t even be my friends. But the worst part is, I can’t find a decent money manager for my 20k inheritance! Ain’t life a bitch?” ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/72 "2004-11-29T22:24:25Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > I don’t know what movie you guys must be referencing, but I figured the first law of show business is to always get a portion of the gross, not the net. _The Producers_, the movie and the play. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/73 "2004-11-29T22:24:29Z")
I went to Santa Cruz, so I know from experience that it’s a tough place to live. If you’ve never tried to find a place to live in the most expensive place to live in the country (seriously, my senior year, Santa Cruz was numero uno, according to the NY Times), I have some stories that would amaze you. I do okay at supporting myself here in Chicago, but I’d be struggling something awful on this salary back in the Bay Area. Anyway, good luck, wherever you end up. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/74 "2004-11-29T22:30:22Z")
> [@passengerpigeon](#): > > p.s. Fuck you alice\_in\_wonderland whose post I did not see because I neglected to refresh the preview. That money is sven’s inheritance, and likely the only such inheritance she will see. She could spend it, and then she’d never have a chunk of change that large again, or she could save it and eventually spend it on making a movie, which is her fucking dream. What are you suggesting? Perhaps more to the point, what the fuck is wrong with you people? > > –p Well, if you took the time to see what other posters suggested what she should do with it, then you would have realized that they were TRYING TO HELP HER WITH ADVICE. Even at 6% interest, the 20K would have netted $100 interest per month, which would help with her current grocery bill and still keep the 20K intact. If she’s got a job lined up, then at least make sure that she can eat and be healthy and ready for that job. I really think you have some problems with criticism when others here can jump these hurdles (and show you how) that are in your way, yet you chose to make these hurdles higher and more stationary. I think **Alice** doesn’t deserve your ranting wrath, but you though are certainly turning into a prick. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/75 "2004-11-29T22:32:21Z")
I just knew this was going to descend into a “I’m from a poorer background than you, but i’ve worked my ass off to get where i am” thread. This sort of self-congratulatory one-upmanship is no more attractive than the old “My dad’s richer than your dad” type. ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/76 "2004-11-29T22:35:56Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I just knew this was going to descend into a “I’m from a poorer background than you, but i’ve worked my ass off to get where i am” thread. > > This sort of self-congratulatory one-upmanship is no more attractive than the old “My dad’s richer than your dad” type. The second most useless human emotion: superiority. ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/77 "2004-11-29T22:38:04Z")
I mean that in agreement with you, not saying you are feeling superior. ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/78 "2004-11-29T22:38:36Z")
Being in your 20s is so difficult. Really. People underestimate how hard it is to establish yourself as an adult. It takes a lot of mistakes and missteps, and letting go of the entitlement attitude that says a degree means you’re owed a life. We’re sold that as the reason for working hard in school, but the world doesn’t deliver and it isn’t going to. Student skills and adult skills are not the same thing, and a degree is not the same as a get-out-of-jail-free card. It just isn’t. [You might want to read this book, both of you.](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0316803480/qid=1101767044/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/103-6394832-9079054) Your library is sure to have it. You can make a living pursuing your passion. My sister is a full-time musician and I’m a professional artist (well, a SAHM at the moment, but that’s what I’ll be going back to). You just have to find your niche, someone who’s willing to pay for what you’re willing to do. And in the meantime, pay your dues. ---
**Author:** ![fruitbat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58f4c7/32.png) [@fruitbat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fruitbat)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/79 "2004-11-29T22:49:48Z")
I am touched that I now have an invitation to leave the country. **Passenger pigeon** , I had hoped you could respond to my less than vituperative pit thread in kind. Clearly you can’t, so go fuck yourself. I may have my problems with **even sven’s** on board persona, but you are just a flaming asshole. Second, I have no problem with any major in college, or any career choice. If you choose to be an artist, a philosopher, or a candlestick maker I could not possibly care less. Whining constantly about the imminently forseeable consequences of that decision is what I have a problem with. There are two broad paths I see as possibilities here. In the first, you have the same problems as always, but don’t make them the subject of every second post. Fine and dandy with me. Second, you make changes and start to do what you really want with your life. Even better. The chosen path of hijacking multiple threads moaning about your poverty is what I object to. I did not know **even sven** had suffered from depression, and I do know from close family experience how difficult that makes it to do anything, let alone turn your life around. I did mean what I said when I said you are not poor in any meaningful way. You are among the minority of adults with a college degree in the wealthiest nation on earth. You don’t have children to take care of, or encumberances that would prevent you from bettering your situation. There is no reason you have to live in the most expensive place in the country, with an anemic job market to boot. If you choose to do so, then again, accept the consequences. Let’s face it I am a selfish bastard. I read the boards for pleasure, to get a laugh, and to get exposed to new ideas. Running into Debbie Downer talking about problems that are greatly overblown just isn’t pleasant. I don’t sit up nights worrying about it, and I am just asking you to rethink your situation and the persona you have chosen to create here. ---
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/80 "2004-11-29T22:50:50Z")
Wow, I wasn’t expecting **even sven’s** boyfriend to come in here and rip into everone! :eek: Though I think **even sven** and **passengerpigeon** need to know that readers of a post don’t necessarily know the depth of a person’s situation the same way the writer does. I’ve had rants of mine backfire, because I wasn’t able to articulate my anger clearly enough for other people to ‘get’ it. All anyone here really knows of anyone else is based on the content of their posts, and since people are often prone to ‘writing themselves out of context’ it is easy to misinterpret/bash someone based on what was read. I have people jumping on my posts sometimes because I’ll rant about something similar, and people would add up rant A, B, C, and D that I have written over the past year and surmise I’m just a whiner, or very dissatisfied with life. That isn’t necessarily true; there are plenty of great days, its just easier to share the bad ones than the good ones. Also, I think everybody needs to be ready to deal with having a post backfire. There’s always someone that won’t buy your sob story, no matter how tragic/beyond your control it might seem. Or they might respond in a disturbing/upsetting manner. This is just part of the Straight Dope Message Board. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162.md?page=5)