# even sven, please give the poverty schtick a rest **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 29, 2004, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162 "2004-11-29T16:38:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/101 "2004-11-30T01:54:57Z")
> [@Roland Orzabal](#): > > In the above sentence, “give a fuck” should read “give _advice_”. :smack: > > I blame profanity as an entity. It’s far too appealing to primitive brain function; it clogs the mind enough to let stupid errors like that slip through. Yeah, profanity…that’s the ticket…maybe I can get the FCC to monitor my posts… If it’ll keep you from showing us your tits, then yeah, I’d say that’d be a good thing. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/102 "2004-11-30T01:57:11Z")
**even sven** , I understand depression. It can eat you alive, distort reality and leave you with _feelings_ of helplessness. People who have not experienced it cannot understand how overwhelming it can be. I don’t know how long it has been since you have recovered, but while you are ill, your attitude it not a matter of will power. I’m glad to know that things are headed in the right direction for you now. One thing that I have learned in my years of counselling for a chronic low grade depression is that it is important to remain independent. Unless the people who have bought you food already know that you are saving $20,000 for something else, you are doing them and you a disservice. (I’m not asking you to tell me. Just passing along advice I’ve been given.) I’ve never had to go hungry or worry about food. Obviously, you are cutting it close. But you haven’t been _really_ hungry. Just for perspective: Someone in my family was hungry enough to eat the undigested grains of corn from horse manure. _That_ is hunger. I believe you when you say that you’ve been looking for work, but have you been truly destitute? You’ve seen the destitute in India. Remember them. Remember me when you are casting a know-it-all grammy type. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/103 "2004-11-30T02:00:24Z")
**MinniePurl** , I could be wrong, but I believe the gripe had more to do with constantly complaining (while hijacking many a thread to do so) -and- then doing nothing with it once said person has specifically asked for advice. Repeatedly. Then doing nothing with it and to some folks, apparently seems to flaunt the exact opposite of how their situation is. At least, that’s how it seems to me that’s what everyone is getting at. Now, as to those who say no one is helped or encouraged or supported (or whatever) here, I beg to differ. I’ve often gotten lots of much needed constructive criticism and plenty of virtual hugs. It’s a balance. Furthermore, I see it even in the Pit, but all over the place in MPSIMs. Lastly, wasn’t that part of the problem with the whole **vanilla** debacle? Most initially rushed to console and defend her while knowing only one side of the story or considering any of her history (readily available or not depends on how much one wants to work for it, I suppose). When her pastor poked his head in to defend his side, and very politely I might add, who do you think was the person who felt dogged on and the one that ended up feeling right? Just wondering what your thoughts would be on this and other examples like it. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![lel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8797f3/32.png) [@lel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lel)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/104 "2004-11-30T02:08:23Z")
> [@treis](#): > > You have 20000 dollars in the bank. You do not have financial problems. And you could move to somewhere fairly cheap (Tulsa, Birmingham AL, Houston) and watch that money go even farther. Well, it is an idea. Somewhere fairly cheap you could live 18 months on $20k, if not longer. Just saying. ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/105 "2004-11-30T02:10:48Z")
> [@lel](#): > > And you could move to somewhere fairly cheap (Tulsa, Birmingham AL, Houston) and watch that money go even farther. > > Well, it is an idea. Somewhere fairly cheap you could live 18 months on $20k, if not longer. Just saying. Hell, if she moved to Birmingham, she could buy a trailer and an acre of land outright! ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/106 "2004-11-30T02:11:37Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Got it. It’s not your fault. It’s someone/thing else’s fault. Figures. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Classic finger-pointing. Sometimes things are a person’s own fault, sometimes they aren’t but at the Dope, external factors are never a consideration. I can’t comment on how much this applies in Even Sven’s case, but it’s a good general principle for the Dope. Be forewarned. And sanctimonious? How about EXTREME sanctimony? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/107 "2004-11-30T02:15:10Z")
> [@](#): > > Hell, if she moved to Birmingham, she could buy a trailer and an acre of land outright! She could set up a patch out back for some rabbits and let **PassengerPigeon** tend them, and the two of them could live off the fat of the land. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/108 "2004-11-30T02:17:22Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > What’s the second rule? Something about never getting involved in a land war in East Hollywood. ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/109 "2004-11-30T02:19:13Z")
[Birmingham real estate.](http://www.realtysouth.com/Listing/ListingDetail.aspx?Search=ffdd85bf-07f9-4910-b2d9-a82880e6a345&Listing=4594261&Image=1&First=1&Last=10&pagesize=10&SearchType=geographic&ListingDistrictTypeID=&FirstLetter=&Sort=1&Cookies=) $11,000 fucking dollars. For a two bedroom house. Birmingham, Atlanta, New Orleans. Major cities within a five-hour drive. You could live there so cheaply it isn’t funny, _and_ get a decent job. ---
**Author:** ![lel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8797f3/32.png) [@lel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lel)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/110 "2004-11-30T02:21:04Z")
> [@Ilsa\_Lund](#): > > Hell, if she moved to Birmingham, she could buy a trailer and an acre of land outright! I thought you were kidding. Researching Birmingham area real estate prices, you could get a small old fixer-upper in the area for 20k with no problem! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/111 "2004-11-30T02:26:48Z")
But . . . and someone had to say it, if she moved to Birmingham, Alabama, she’d have to _live_ in Birmingham, Alabama. I mean, really. Okay, okay, I kid. If Birmingham is even remotely near the ocean, it sounds like a cool place to me. Ditto for New Orleans or Atlanta. I’ve been to both New Orleans and Atlanta and they’re really great places. I’m sure Birmingham is too. However, speaking as someone who has moved half-way across the continent, away from home and all the people I know, it kind of . . . well, sucks. (There were good reasons for doing it, though, but that’s not relevant to this discussion.) I would think that there’s probably some place somewhere within California (or perhaps a little across the border in Oregon, or Nevada, or Arizona) that would be a nice place for sven to settle down and live cheaper. While some people don’t mind picking up and moving halfway (or more) across the country, I don’t think it’s necessarily a reasonable expectation for just anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/112 "2004-11-30T02:30:00Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > However, the fact remains that following one’s dream is a lifestyle choice, not a law of nature. And poverty by choice is simply a much less tragic situation than poverty with no alternatives and little chance of escaping. The more you post about how hard your life is without clearly taking responsibility for the fact that you’ve chosen to be poor in order to follow your dream, the more you come across, to put it nicely, badly. On message boards, how you say things and how often you say them can be more significant than what you say. Now, this is the point I don’t get. They’re supposed to be happy that Sven is working shit jobs and has no money? How does that work exactly? #Just put on a happy face# no matter what, is that the sentiment I’m hearing here? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/113 "2004-11-30T02:34:00Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > What do you put under your pillow to attract the Job Fairy? An unemployment check? An eviction notice? > > **Una,** I don’t think any smart person would blast sven for being unemployed. Taking a three month vacation and then bitching about your poverty, however, is a mildly pittable action. I’ve never had three consecutive months off in my life. Since I was 14 I doubt I’ve ever had four entire weeks off in any calendar year. Who the hell has that kind of time or money?? Take three months off if you want, but don’t complain about the absurdly obvious impact on your income. I just found out I can’t afford to take ten days off. Even if four of those days are weekends and two are Thanksgiving. Taking off for that long is too expensive. In just two days of that vacation I had to shell out just under $500 for two sick doggies (picked something up while at the kennel while I was on vacation), myself (asthmatic bronchitus), and my car (check engine light). Oh, plus another $80 for the kennel. Needless to say, I’m not taking any more vacations…they’re just too expensive, even when your girlfriend pays for the flights and the hotel. -Joe, starting a whining session…and proving a point ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/114 "2004-11-30T02:36:18Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > **Una,** I don’t think any smart person would blast sven for being unemployed. Taking a three month vacation and then bitching about your poverty, however, is a mildly pittable action. I’ve never had three consecutive months off in my life. Since I was 14 I doubt I’ve ever had four entire weeks off in any calendar year. Who the hell has that kind of time or money?? Take three months off if you want, but don’t complain about the absurdly obvious impact on your income. I agree with you. I think we’re talking about slightly different aspects of the same core problem. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/115 "2004-11-30T02:37:44Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > We’ve been there and found that the way out isn’t socialism, or communism, or anarchy or economic revolution or whatever it is that you’re advocating these days (I’m really not sure), it’s hard work. HARD WORK and PERSISTENCE, coupled with a willingness to eat shit for a couple of years as the cost of the journey CAN and WILL get you anything you want (within reason) in this country. Still. Today. Even in spite of all of the nasty corporations hell bent on chewing your poor proletariat ass up and spitting it out. :rolleyes: We know this because we’ve done it, so please, spare us your “wisdom”, when stacked up against our experience it is easy to see which one works in the real world, and which one is just an excuse. Yeah, but you’re just the survivors. You’re generalizing from your personal experience and assuming it’s universal, but it’s not neccesarily true. Frex, Sven could do as you advise, work hard, live in a stinking hovel and eat Ramen noodles and save up a nest egg, and then when she’s ready to do her short, she gets run over by a bus. Or she gets a loathsome, crippling disease. Or any number of things. Then how good was your advice? She suffered but did not achieve her goal. I’m sure it happens all the time. Fact is, if there’s any way Sven could AVOID your character-building program of hard work, malnutrition and denial, she’d be well advised to do so. Getting the film made is Priority One, if you want to be a filmmaker. ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Daddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Bruce\_Daddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Daddy)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/116 "2004-11-30T02:38:03Z")
I was born with a silver spoon in my ass and make more in 2 months than most of you losers do in a year. :kisses:! Not really ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/117 "2004-11-30T02:40:54Z")
> [@Ilsa\_Lund](#): > > The second most useless human emotion: superiority. Yeah, but to be honest, sometimes it’s hard not to feel it. ---
**Author:** ![lel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8797f3/32.png) [@lel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lel)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/118 "2004-11-30T02:45:17Z")
> [@yosemite](#): > > However, speaking as someone who has moved half-way across the continent, away from home and all the people I know, it kind of . . . well, sucks. Well, family and friends could always move across the continent and leave you as the only one where you are. (Just saying that risk is there also.) > [@](#): > > I would think that there’s probably some place somewhere within California (or perhaps a little across the border in Oregon, or Nevada, or Arizona) that would be a nice place for sven to settle down and live cheaper. While some people don’t mind picking up and moving halfway (or more) across the country, I don’t think it’s necessarily a reasonable expectation for just anyone. Okay, how about Sacramento. Pretty close, and it looks like you can rent an apartment there for $600/mo. or less. (Or better yet, doesn’t **even sven** ’s mother live there? Talk about saving money!) ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/119 "2004-11-30T02:51:50Z")
> [@Una Persson](#): > > I know that there are jobs out there, but I did see qualified, seemingly energetic and enthusiastic people struggle to find work, and that was very disturbing to me. Not slackers, not failures, not criminals or blackballed people, but good people with good experience and good degrees, on the streets for months. Years. I used to interview people for jobs, and hire (back when we hired people…), and I know there was nothing “wrong” with their resumes, qualifications, or experience. C’mon, Una, all those people are Secret Slackers. They SEEM bright and energetic, and they worked hard and successfully IN THE PAST, but now they’re lazy scum in their secret heart of hearts. Their attemtps to find work are subterfuges designed to glean sympathy from others. They’d rather be home watching Oprah and selling their personal property to make the rent, if they thought they could get away with it. They’re secretly posting to message boards for sympathy and trying to make it look like it’s not their fault, but it is, it is. Damn, I do that sanctimony thing pretty good. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/120 "2004-11-30T02:58:29Z")
Evil Captor, normally I can tell what axe a person is trying to grind, but your comments leave me mystified. What are you trying to say? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162.md?page=7)