# even sven, please give the poverty schtick a rest **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 29, 2004, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162 "2004-11-29T16:38:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/161 "2004-11-30T16:38:41Z")
> [@](#): > > So granted, choices, blah blah, options, blah blah, shouldn’t complain, blah blah blah. But are you seriously suggesting that sven should sacrifice her long term goals and aspirations to patch up a short term problem? Because that’s what you’re implying if you think she should be spending her $20K right now. If people literally and seriously cannot afford to eat, they should use their available resources now to prevent them from starving to death. If the problem is not as serious as all that, then they should stop acting like it is. “Woe is me” is not an attractive personality trait. I love a good rant but there_are_ limits. ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/162 "2004-11-30T16:40:42Z")
I think that Dopers’ frustration with someone who won’t take their advice & keeps complaining is understandable. Personally, I once pitted a guy for doing exactly that - he was driving me nuts by ignoring me. But we are all rather Dr. Phil-ing it; we don’t know enough to make more than superficial judgements, comparisons and suggestions. That’s not to say the advice is worthless; far from it. And people saying “this is what worked for me” is them being truthful and honest. Not sanctimonious. What’s likely here is that we’re not able to get to the meat of the problem, which is why the problem remains. In the post about her job working for the crazy rich guy (which is the only other thread of hers that I’ve read) she writes brilliantly. I can just imagine that even sven might well have been the star of her particular high school. To then get out into the real world and find indifference — how could one not be depressed? It might be interesting to note that studies have revealed the vast majority of Fine Art majors are _no longer making art_ within 5 years of graduation. It’s huge, either 75% or 95%, I can’t remember which. It’s still up to each individual to find the way that works for them, we are responsible for ourselves; but it’s surely not easy. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/163 "2004-11-30T16:51:05Z")
zut, she’s whining about how her cupboard has nothing but onions, potatoes and donated tomato sauce. Bullshit, don’t whine about how you’re starving to death when you have 20 large sitting in the bank. Does she need a better job? Yes. Should she just blow all this money to pay for luxuries? No, that’s a waste. Should she use some of this money to keep herself afloat during this rough time? Absolutely, it’s called investing in yourself. That earns returns as well. If you make a choice that causes you difficulty today for expected big returns tomorrow, you SHOULD shut up about today’s problems, because you should have accounted for that when you made your decision. She HAS options, if things are so awful, she should consider them. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/164 "2004-11-30T17:06:11Z")
Sven, don’t get too upset by this thread. While there may be a few people who are just being assholes, the vast majority of people in this thread seem to be genuinely trying to help, in their own particular way. The fact that you don’t like the way they are trying to help is another matter. But I think this focus on Sven’s poverty is incorrect. I don’t know her except through the SDMB, but it seems to me that her problem isn’t poverty, it isn’t the job market, it isn’t the housing market, it isn’t bags of potatoes and tomato sauce. The root of the problem is Sven’s depression, which keeps her from making the decisions she needs to make. Sven, I think you need to prepare yourself for another bout of depression in the future. I can understand not wanting to cut yourself off from the highs. But your lows seem pretty damn low. You can have the best job in the world, and be living your dreams, and if you hit a depressive cycle you won’t be able to take advantage of it. ---
**Author:** ![xcheopis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/bc8723/32.png) [@xcheopis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xcheopis)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/165 "2004-11-30T17:30:29Z")
> [@1920s Style "Death Ray"](#): > > _Man walks in to to a councelor’s office:_ Hello, I’d like a fuck. > > _Councelor:_ ? > > _Man:_ Advice!, I meant advice! Reading this as a Monty Python sketch, with Michael Palin as the patient, is just that much funnier. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/166 "2004-11-30T17:34:38Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > Note the boldfaced section. You’re complaining about the fact that even sven is … complaining. But why should she not complain? I APPLAUD her decision to save that nest egg and use it in a way that might be able to get her where she wants to be in life. I ADMIRE her for sticking it out and doing boring, mundane work for low wages and surviving on those wages, for a chance to do some filmmaking. As far as I am concerned, she can complain all she likes, because shit work is shit work and poverty sucks no matter why you’re stuck in it. Actually, I’m not complaining about the fact that **even sven** is complaining. I’m saying that to paint yourself as a helpless, tragic victim of fate when it is well known that your hardships are temporary and self-imposed for the purpose of your own long-term happiness and short-term preferences (preferred living location, etc.) undermines the points you are trying to make. As an illustrative example, compare the two different ways of talking about being a starving artist: Case 1: “Man, trying to make it as a painter is really tough – the hours suck, the pay sucks, and I have to work a shitty job to make ends meet. If I didn’t love painting so much, I’d have to wonder if it’s worth it.” Case 2: “Man, I’m starving to death, the house is freezing, and I can’t pay the electric bill for three more weeks because I just bought a $300 easel. It’s horrible being poor.” The first case is what I meant by taking responsibility for the situation – your complaints are about the difficulty of walking the path you’ve chosen for yourself. Of course there will always be someone who still comes along and says “eh, you’ve made your bed, now shut up about it” but there will also be plenty of people with stories of support and encouragement. In the second case, you are complaining about the unfairness of _having_ to do things as part of pursuing a personal dream, and likening yourself to people in much more desperate situations who in fact have little or no options. It’s a bad way to get sympathy and an easy way to irritate people, _especially_ when you do it over and over again at every opportunity. > [@](#): > > I’ll grant you the decision to go to India doesn’t make a lot of financial sense – would have made more sense to use whatever resources she had there to get her out of her current grind – but it seems a minor point. I couldn’t give less of a shit if she went to India or didn’t. I couldn’t give less of a shit if she spends or saves her $20K. If she asks for my advice on either topic, I’ll probably give it, and I won’t think less of her if she decides not to take it. She doesn’t have to defend a single decision she makes as far as I’m concerned. But, if she whines over and over again about her situation in an irritating fashion, I’m going to think she’s a bit clueless and immature, and I’m going to understand why other posters find her complaints irritating. > [@](#): > > That clear enough for ya? Yes. You are truly a master of clarity. ---
**Author:** ![Miabella](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ccd318/32.png) [@Miabella](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miabella)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/167 "2004-11-30T17:36:20Z")
What I really want to know is if this is true: > [@even sven](#): > > FWIW, **PassengerPigeon** doesn’t have any financial problems, and he’s not really in the same boat as me at all. then why can’t our chivalrous **PassengerPigeon** buy **even sven** some food? How 'bout it, buddy, spring for a pizza or a jar of peanut butter. I can’t imagine being in a relationship with someone and letting my SO go hungry when I had the means to help. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/168 "2004-11-30T17:43:01Z")
> [@Miabella](#): > > What I really want to know is if this is true: > > then why can’t our chivalrous **PassengerPigeon** buy **even sven** some food? > > How 'bout it, buddy, spring for a pizza or a jar of peanut butter. I can’t imagine being in a relationship with someone and letting my SO go hungry when I had the means to help. 😕 They’re an ITEM? [walks away, dazed and in disbelief…] ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/169 "2004-11-30T17:44:31Z")
An earlier post alluded to the ability to honestly and correct assess one’s own talent in a given area. Rather than a whole-hearted endorsement of the “move to L.A. and establish herself in the industry,” I think it would be valuable to know if, when it comes down to it, **even sven** actually has sufficient talent to make a living in film. Of all of us, only she is likely to be in a position to make that judgement. And even she may not have the tools to successfully do so. Of course, the world is replete with stories of the misunderstood genius who was told by everyone that he had no talent for X, only to “show them all” and succeed brilliantly, so perhaps evaluation by a third party is not perfect. But for every misunderstaood genius, there are thousands upon thousands of people whose work was judged accurately by others in their field, either as having potential or… not. ---
**Author:** ![auntie\_em](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@auntie\_em](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/auntie_em)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/170 "2004-11-30T17:47:13Z")
Regarding the 20K . . . I think she should spend it on what she needs to survive right now, penalties (if there are any) be damned. But I understand the other side. My sister is on the other side. She doesn’t have 20K (that we know of), but she is married with two kids, and the only one in her household who works (and she only works part time at that). My mother pays the bill on her gasoline card. My mother gave her money to pay her car off because it was about to be repossessed, when she really didn’t owe that much (around 2K, I think, which isn’t pennies, but it’s not like she was looking at $15,000 to pay off) on it. She routinely asks to “borrow” money from my mother that she never pays back, because she can’t pay her bills. She gets WIC and other public assistance to care for her kids. I have given her money myself (to get her car fixed), because she seems to be under such constant stress about money that it makes me feel awful for her. (I know that this is horribly enabling behavior on my mother’s and my parts, but that’s another thread.) Because of this, she still has a bank account in the state where my mother lives (many miles away from where she herself lives), to make it easy for my mother to give her money–all Mom has to do is jet down the street to the bank and make a deposit. Well. One day, my mother jetted down to the bank to deposit money for my sister, and the nice teller lady, who recognized my mother, inquired as to _which of my sister’s accounts_ should get the money. Upon learning that my sister had another account at the bank, Mom called my sister to ask how much money was in it. My sister said $4,000. (Which, since she’s known to bend the truth, probably means closer to $10,000. :dubious: ) My mother told me about this, and I was mad. **SkipMagic** was mad. My mother, on the other hand? She wasn’t mad at all. She was _relieved_. Happy, even, to know that my sister, despite being so poor, had “sense enough” to keep a stash of cash to fall back on in case one day my mom can’t help her out. So I think a lot depends upon your views about money. Some people would rather beg, borrow, steal and/or starve before they’d take a penny out of their savings. I was actually taught that once you put money into savings, you should forget that you have it (unless, of course, circumstances are beyond dire and there is absolutely NOTHING you can do to avoid dipping into it). Somehow, the philosophy was lost on me, but obviously my sister took it to heart. Maybe this is **even sven’s** philosophy as well, especially if she’s so accustomed to being poor that she can’t imagine ever being able to replace that money. I agree with most of you about the complaining and all, but I don’t mess with anyone’s ideas about money–they’re usually way too strong and deeply ingrained. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/171 "2004-11-30T18:14:04Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > …I think it would be valuable to know if, when it comes down to it, **even sven** actually has sufficient talent to make a living in film. > > Of all of us, only she is likely to be in a position to make that judgement. And even she may not have the tools to successfully do so. > > Of course, the world is replete with stories of the misunderstood genius who was told by everyone that he had no talent for X, only to “show them all” and succeed brilliantly, so perhaps evaluation by a third party is not perfect. But for every misunderstaood genius, there are thousands upon thousands of people whose work was judged accurately by others in their field, either as having potential or… not. To be fair, there are also thousands upon thousands of people who **do** possess sufficient talent and drive, who want to earn a living in what most perceive as a glamorous field for which there are many more applicants than available positions, and who do not have the self-promotional ability, contacts or that extra edge of truly extraordinary capabilities that would allow them to achieve their dreams. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/172 "2004-11-30T18:46:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > An earlier post alluded to the ability to honestly and correct assess one’s own talent in a given area. > > Rather than a whole-hearted endorsement of the “move to L.A. and establish herself in the industry,” I think it would be valuable to know if, when it comes down to it, **even sven** actually has sufficient talent to make a living in film. > > . And how will she ever find out unless she tries? ---
**Author:** ![lightingtool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/57b2e6/32.png) [@lightingtool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lightingtool)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/173 "2004-11-30T19:10:53Z")
Regarding the “move to L.A. and get into the industry” advice that’s floating around: Don’t. You can (and probably should) make a movie almost anywhere in the country that has the same production values as one made in L.A. - and your movie will be produced at a much lower cost. My advice would be to move somewhere cheap, make a movie (or three) there. Then, splice together a reel to show producers that you are not just another schmuck fresh off the Greyhound, ready to take Hollywood by storm. Of the 8 people that work for me, two moved to L.A. to work in movies. Both are very talented, and both have not gotten any work (paid or not) in the industry. To clarify, build your experience outside the industry, send off your resume and reel to various people, companies, groups, whatever, and when you start hearing back from people, _then_ move to L.A. And make sure you realize that it costs a crap-load of money to live down here. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/174 "2004-11-30T19:13:15Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > Well, in one post you said something to the effect that Even Sven should look to herself as the cause of her problems, and my response was that it was classic finger-pointing. Life problems are rarely ALL the victim’s fault, or ALL due to external factors – generally it’s some kind of combination. Well, sure. Where we are in life is a result of our own choices. I recognize that sometimes circumstances beyond our control smack us in the ass, but that post was in direct response to PassengerPigeon’s poor, poor pitiful put-upon me statement: “I feel it is only my duty to note that you, and people like you, are exactly what is wrong with this country, and exactly what is causing the great American slide away from culture, away from values, and away from being the Land of Fucking Opportunity Where Everybody Can Do What They Want To If They Try Really Hard, and into being a barren, desolate Blade-Runnerish corporate state where we will all slave like, well, slaves, for the great military-industrial complex as it grinds our souls into the dirt.” It was bullshit when he posted it and it’s bullshit now, and if any finger pointing is being done it’s not me that’s doing it, it’s PassengerPigeon. Wah! THEY are against me, that’s why I can’t do anything! > [@Evil Captor](#): > > In another post you explained how you’d managed to improve your lot in life through hard work and persistence, which is a good thing, but I pointed out that what worked for you might not work for others for a variety of reasons. Your post seemed to posit that because it worked for you it would work for anybody. Not necessarily. > > That straightforward enough for you? What we have now is inactivity and online complaining about it. I absolutely fucking guarantee you that hard work and persistence is going to be more productive that that 100% of the time. That you would even question that leaves me gobsmackered. “Don’t even bother to try because some people fail” is an attitude guaranteed to make that failure come to pass. Honestly, if that’s how you feel, how do you even get up in the morning? What’s the point? ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/175 "2004-11-30T19:16:30Z")
I think it’s worth noting that I owe the government $15,000, which I’d prefer to pay off in installments because I think I can make more money on investments than the relatively low student-loan interest. And I’m pretty attached to this chunk of money. I hope that I can use it in a meaningful way to improve my life one day- but I know right now is not the time. I know I’m not mentally all together yet and I’m afraid of wasting my money on The Big Move and not being able to make good on it like so many of my friends (now living at home) did after college. I’ve already wasted about $5,000 in post-college scholarships (that were supposed to go to film equiptment) and savings on living expenses. I don’t want to see what is going to be my only inheritence waste away on bread and milk. It’d be gone in a year and I’ll have lost a great chance. But I’ll be fair. What I have is an income problem. I won’t really be happy until I’m bringing in as much money as I spend. And I am going to try my best to live within my income, even though it’s pretty tough. I can’t justify living above my means in any situation. I guess India was an exception. But the circumstances were a once-in-a-life-time thing. I wouldn’t have to pay rent while I was gone (which has kept me from travelling in the past), I had family in the country, and due to some error I got my plane ticket half off. My real dream is to travel, and I havn’t done much of anything in two years that has been meaningful. I havn’t had the energy and inspiritation to make films (which does worry me, but I know I can get through) and I feel like I’m just wasting time. India at least made it all seem like less of a waste. **PassengerPigeon** is great, and usually ends up bankrolling the food, but he is uhhh…dependently wealthy and his benefactors’ arn’t going to pay for my life as well. As for talent, I’ve got plenty. All I need is to find that drive again, but all I see is $200.00 paychecks and the clock ticking away. Obviously it’s something I need to work through, and obviously it’s easier said than done. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/176 "2004-11-30T20:01:07Z")
I live Sven… she’s cute, and she’s from where I live. I feel a connection to her. At the same time, I also get frustrated seeing posts like the one above. Sven, kiddo, you can’t see rent and food as a waste. You just can’t. Politics and ethics are nothing. They aren’t real, not really, and it’s pointless to try to hold to them while you are in danger of making yourself sick from not eating correctly. Be a socialist, be an anarchist, be an evangelical christian, but don’t delude yourself into thinking that these things make you incapable of, say, going to a food bank and picking up a box of food to make it through the month. Beyond that, I don’t have much to say. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/177 "2004-11-30T21:13:30Z")
So make a low budget documentary – get out on the road to do it if it gets out of a rut – and use it to market yourself. It all begins with the first step – not with siting on your ass whinging. There’s thems that does, and thems that don’t. Which are you? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/178 "2004-11-30T21:42:52Z")
> [@passengerpigeon](#): > > . . . Fuck all y’all. . . . > > . . . Allow me to just assure you that sven doesn’t consider working an inconvenience except inasmuch as everybody would consider working a shit-ass menial job one doesn’t enjoy for fuck-nothing wages while in possession of an actual honest-to-goodness college degree which theoretically is supposed to qualify you to get the kind of rewarding and enjoyable employment which doesn’t appear to even fucking exist an “inconvenience.” . . . . > > . . . I feel it is only my duty to note that you, and people like you, are exactly what is wrong with this country, and exactly what is causing the great American slide away from culture, away from values, and away from being the Land of Fucking Opportunity Where Everybody Can Do What They Want To If They Try Really Hard, and into being a barren, desolate Blade-Runnerish corporate state where we will all slave like, well, slaves, for the great military-industrial complex as it grinds our souls into the dirt. . . . [quote=even sven] PassengerPigeon is great, and usually ends up bankrolling the food, but he is uhhh…dependently wealthy and his benefactors’ arn’t going to pay for my life as well. [quote] Ah, my mistake. I had thought that from his rant that he believed the world owed him a living, whereas in fact it is specific benefactors. The more you two post, the more laughable it becomes. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/179 "2004-11-30T21:43:15Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > There’s thems that does, and thems that don’t. Which are you? I believe the expression you’re looing for is “Shit or get off the pot.” I love that expression. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162/180 "2004-11-30T22:01:11Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > I believe the expression you’re looing for is “Shit or get off the pot.” > > I love that expression. That’s because _you_ don’t have flowerpots in your front yard. Damn kids… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/even-sven-please-give-the-poverty-schtick-a-rest/277162.md?page=10)