# evenly misquoted expressions... **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 17, 2000, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evenly-misquoted-expressions/29760 "2000-08-17T18:40:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2000, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evenly-misquoted-expressions/29760/61 "2000-08-18T17:44:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by notquitekarpov \* > \*\*My personal horror surrounds the use of “momentarily”. We have a yank working in our office here in London and I had the following exchange: > > ME: (requests he performs task) > > HIM: “Yes, I’ll do that momentarily.” > > ME: (winding him up) “Er, what’s the use of that? We need it done permanently!” > > HIM: “Eh?” > > etc. > > How can you have ended up with momentarily meaning “in a moment” rather than “for a moment”? > > BTW it not a phrase only a song title but I had a mate once who honestly believed the title of the early Blondie hit to be “Beneath the knees” as in “Beneath the knees, I’m so in love with you…” ! \*\* I thought the same thing, notquitekarpov, but was foiled by the dictionary, which lists both. [Webster’s online](http://www.websters.com) adds this to the entry: > [@](#): > > **Usage Note: Momentarily is widely used in speech to mean “in a moment,” as in The manager is on another line, but she’ll be with you momentarily. This usage rarely leads to ambiguity since the intended sense can usually be determined on the basis of the tense of the verb and the context. Nonetheless, many critics hold that the adverb should be reserved for the senses “for a moment” or “moment by moment,” and the extended usage is unacceptable to 59 percent of the Usage Panel.** This is not to say that a dictionary is the same as a grammar: it does not tell us what is “proper,” but only reports common practice. Nonetheless, I generally regard a grammatical misuse’s inclusion in a dictionary as a battle lost and a signal to save my resources for other skirmishes. ---
**Author:** ![panamajack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/47e85d/32.png) [@panamajack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panamajack)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2000, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evenly-misquoted-expressions/29760/62 "2000-08-18T17:55:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lissener \* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by me \* > > . . . “all hell broke loose” was originally “all hell broke loose”. In this unusual case, the difference is purely grammatical. In Milton, “all hell broke loose” is the subject of the sentence. Sometime in between, it became a synonym for the event of pandemonium rather than its inhabitants. . . . > > \*\*Put me down for a resounding _ **hunh?** _ on this one. \*\* Okay … perhaps I should give the context, that might help; although the context is grammatically difficult to decipher as well. SATAN has come up to spy on God’s new creation, and he meets up with his old colleague GABRIEL; GABRIEL is questioning him as to why he didn’t bring his friends along : But wherefore thou alone? wherefore with thee Came not **all Hell broke loose?** is pain to them Less pain, less to be fled, or thou than they Less hardie to endure? courageous Chief, The first in flight from pain, had’st thou alleg’d To thy deserted host this cause of flight, Thou surely hadst not come sole fugitive. (copied from Proj. Gutenberg text) ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2000, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evenly-misquoted-expressions/29760/63 "2000-08-18T17:56:23Z")
The interesting thing about _Cool Hand Luke_ is how little dialogue Strother Martin actually has. I saw it again about a year ago, pretty much just so I could hear the quote…and I was amazed at how little there was. “What we haaaave heah is…failure to communicate,” is only said once, I’m sure. And I don’t like it any more than you men. Oh, the other one that gets me. “Ignorance is bliss.” Well, it isn’t. The real quote is, “If ignorance is bliss, tis folly to be wise.” ---
**Author:** ![PaulT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9bd4f/32.png) [@PaulT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulT)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2000, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evenly-misquoted-expressions/29760/64 "2000-08-18T18:06:02Z")
Darn right about ‘et cetera’ being firmly two words, panamajack – it was even at one time abbreviated ‘& c.’ instead of ‘etc.’ And maybe if people learned a little more Latin, they wouldn’t apply it to people, where they ought to be using ‘et al.’ for ‘et aliis’. Otherwise, it’s a bit of an insult, calling people ‘things.’ As for ‘jerry-rig’ vs. ‘jury-rig’, I was surprised to find that the Oxford English Dictionary can date ‘jury-rigged’ all the way back to 1788, but ‘jerry-built’ only back to 1869 (although they have no definitive etymology for either.) Since ‘Jerry’ as a slang term for a German soldier didn’t come into use until 1919, and the term ‘jury-rig’ actually predates the creation of Germany by nearly a century, I’m going to have to assume that ‘jury-rig’ is the correct rendering, contrary to what I had previously thought. You learn something new every day… ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2000, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evenly-misquoted-expressions/29760/65 "2000-08-18T18:06:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lissener \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by panamajack \* > > **. . . “all hell broke loose” was originally “all hell broke loose”. In this unusual case, the difference is purely grammatical. In Milton, “all hell broke loose” is the subject of the sentence. Sometime in between, it became a synonym for the event of pandemonium rather than its inhabitants. . . .** > > Put me down for a resounding _ **hunh?** _ on this one. \*\* All the inhabitants hell broke loose? Along with the protein example comes “di-ah-pers”. I just say “die-pers” but maybe the other is correct? Also, there’s chicken pops vs. chicken pox. Even split among my friends. ---
**Author:** ![jessicala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/eb9ed0/32.png) [@jessicala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jessicala)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2000, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evenly-misquoted-expressions/29760/66 "2000-08-18T18:30:24Z")
thought of a couple more thing morning … I’ve heard people pronounce the word “forte” in the context of someone’s stong point (“Let him handle the negotiations with the cannibals, that’s his forte”) the same way it’s pronounced in musical notation. If it’s something someone’s especially good at, it’s pronounced “fort”; if it’s indicating loudness in a piece of music, it’s pronounced “for-te” I’ve also seen people use presently (meaning in a little while) where they should be using currently (meaning at this moment.) Encarta Online gives both definitions, but it sounds like someone was dragging their feet at having to include the second one: > [@](#): > > pres·ent·ly [prézz’ntlee] adverb > > 1. soon: not at this exact moment but in a short while _(formal or literary)_ > 2. at the present time: now, or during the current period, especially if not at some other time _(some people object to this usage)_ ---
**Author:** ![Gregor\_Samsa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@Gregor\_Samsa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gregor_Samsa)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2000, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evenly-misquoted-expressions/29760/67 "2000-08-18T18:45:30Z")
I’ve noticed in recent years people using the expression “wrecking havoc” instead of “wreaking havoc.” “Wreaking” means bringing about. “Wrecking” means destroying. By substituting one word for another, they’ve essentially reversed the meaning of the expression. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2000, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evenly-misquoted-expressions/29760/68 "2000-08-18T19:18:44Z")
Aluminum vs. Aluminium. From [http://www.webelements.com](http://www.webelements.com) > [@](#): > > In 1807, Davy proposed the name alumium for the metal, undiscovered at that time, and later agreed to change it to aluminum. Shortly thereafter, the name aluminium was adopted by IUPAC to conform with the “ium” ending of most elements. Aluminium is the IUPAC spelling and therefore the international standard. Aluminium was also the accepted spelling in the U.S.A. until 1925, at which time the American Chemical Society decided to revert back to aluminum, and to this day Americans still refer to aluminium as “aluminum”. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2000, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evenly-misquoted-expressions/29760/69 "2000-08-18T19:34:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JayLa \* > \*\*. . . I’ve heard people pronounce the word “forte” in the context of someone’s stong point . . . the same way it’s pronounced in musical notation. If it’s something someone’s especially good at, it’s pronounced “fort”; if it’s indicating loudness in a piece of music, it’s pronounced “for-te” \*\*I agree, technically, since the former is from the French and the latter is from the Italian, but now they’re both English, and both ultimately from the same Latin root. They picked up their current respective pronunciations on their respective Romantic diversions. Besides, I have literally _never_ heard the former usage pronounced “fort.” Do Brits francofy it? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2000, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evenly-misquoted-expressions/29760/70 "2000-08-18T20:57:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by missbunny \* > \*\*The Ryan, the OP was asking for expressions that are evenly misquoted - that is, quoted correctly half the time and incorrectly the other half, not whether one is just as valid or just as useless as the other. Did you read my first post? I said: > [@](#): > > For the Yorick quote, okay, the person is obviously quoting Shakespeare, and failing. But how many people say “for all intents of purpose” with the intent of quoting some obscure English document? Or “money is the root of all evil” with the intent of quoting the Bible? Or “A little knowledge is a dangerous thing” to quote Pope? I clearly drew a distinction between those that make a statement with the intent of quoting someone, and those that say it just because they agree with it, or because it sounds cool. If you aren’t trying to quoting someone, I don’t see how you can be misquoting them. > [@](#): > > I have heard people say, “Well, you know what the Bible says - money is the root of all evil,” Well, then go ahead and correct them. I have heard people say “Money is the root of all evil” or “You know what they say: ‘money is the root of all evil’” or “It’s said that money is the root of all evil.” I have **never** heard anyone say “The Bible says that money is the root of all evil.” As for the “failure to communicate” phrase: it was said at least twice: the warden says it at least once, and Luke says it at least once. I don’t recall whether Luke quoted the warden exactly. There’s another mistake that’s commonly made with “etc.”: people place “and” before it: “There were apples, oranges, bananas and etc.” On a related note, what’s with “PIN number” and “ATM machine”? I find myself using these expressions just from hearing them so often. Does anyone have a VCR recorder? A CPU unit? RAM memory? And here’s another misunderstanding: many people don’t seem to realize that “raising” and “razing” have completely opposite meanings. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2000, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evenly-misquoted-expressions/29760/71 "2000-08-18T21:03:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lissener \* > Besides, I have literally _never_ heard the former usage pronounced “fort.” Do Brits francofy it? Wasn’tt it mentioned on the Simpsons once? Toadspittle: > [@](#): > > I had a chemistry teacher in high school who was educated in the British West Indies who pronounced/spelled the American “A-lum-in-um” as “Al-u-min-i-um.” Can’t remember if she said “pro-te-in” or not. Isn’t the American version “Uh-loo-mih-num”? That’s how I learned it. ---
**Author:** ![jcatcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dbc845/32.png) [@jcatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jcatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2000, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evenly-misquoted-expressions/29760/72 "2000-08-18T21:14:22Z")
**"Come to grips"** vs **"come to terms"** These are used interchangeably but they are opposite in meaning. I’ve heard network TV commentators say that a couple “came to grips with the situation and got back together.” ?? They beat each other up and got back together?? Love hurts, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2000, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evenly-misquoted-expressions/29760/73 "2000-08-18T21:58:37Z")
Nah, it’s for-te to us (no regional variations). A fort is something you people used to have to keep out them Injuns - never understood what was wrong with Sumptner Castle. Another one that enjoys a mixed pronounciation here is ‘ego’. Most people pronounce it E-Go but a significant minority go with eg-go (like Sego). I think the latter reflects a latin root but that’s speculation. Also, Americans say “I have no clue” whereas we would say “I have no idea” - in the case of jcatcher’s post above, both would apply to me. ---
**Author:** ![Danielinthewolvesden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Danielinthewolvesden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danielinthewolvesden)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2000, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evenly-misquoted-expressions/29760/74 "2000-08-18T22:14:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Enright3 \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Danielinthewolvesden \* > > \*\*“What we have here is…failure to communicate”= right > > “What we have here is A failure to communicate”= wrong > > > > A small nit pick, but it does change the meaning a bit. \*\* > > According to IMDB, both of those are wrong. When I quote that line I’m quoting from the move Cool Hand Luke… > > \*What we’ve got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can’t reach, so you get what we had here last week which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it. And I don’t like it any more than you men. > > * * * yes, of course, you are correct, what I was pointing out is that there is no “a” before failure, as everyone misquotes. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2000, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evenly-misquoted-expressions/29760/75 "2000-08-18T22:32:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Danielinthewolvesden \* > \*\* > > yes, of course, you are correct, what I was pointing out is that there is no “a” before failure, as everyone misquotes. \*\* I heard that Strother claimed that he _did_ say “a failure” but that it got garbled during the transmission. Is that true? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![screech-owl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@screech-owl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/screech-owl)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2000, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evenly-misquoted-expressions/29760/76 "2000-08-18T22:56:04Z")
“If you’ve got it, flout it” instead of “flaunt it” “Flaunting the rules” instead of “flouting the rules” brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr (the sound of a cold shiver up my journalistic spine) ☹ ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2000, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evenly-misquoted-expressions/29760/77 "2000-08-19T00:32:25Z")
> [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > These people of little learning are themselves illustrating what the poet was warning against. > > Huh? How does saying “A little knowledge is a dangerous thing” instead of “A little learning is a dangerous thing” a dangerous thing? I think you need to get that stick out of your ass. > \*\* The POINT, O ye of little learning, is the rest of the quotation. It doesn’t mean that having some knowledge is dangerous: it means that _having only a small amount_ is. The whole quatrain is: A little learning is a dangerous thing, Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring; For shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, While drinking largely sobers us again. Once you have a little learning, in other words, you should extend it so you can understand what you have learnt, which is the complete opposite of the anti-intellectual way it’s usually quoted. ---
**Author:** ![labradorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3ec8ea/32.png) [@labradorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/labradorian)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2000, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evenly-misquoted-expressions/29760/78 "2000-08-19T00:58:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jcatcher \* > \*\ ***“Come to grips”** vs **"come to terms"** > These are used interchangeably but they are opposite in meaning. I’ve heard network TV commentators say that a couple “came to grips with the situation and got back together.” ?? They beat each other up and got back together?? Love hurts, I guess. \*\* The two meanings you give are different, but they are no more opposite than apples and oranges. And “come to terms” has the additional meaning that is similar to the “come to grips” expression, as well as the “agreeing to terms” connotation. False opposition. ---
**Author:** ![labradorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3ec8ea/32.png) [@labradorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/labradorian)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2000, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evenly-misquoted-expressions/29760/79 "2000-08-19T01:02:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lissener \* > Put me down for a resounding _ **hunh?** _ on this one. \*\* “all hell broke loose”. Noun phrase. Paraphrase: “All of hell broken loose [verbed something]”. “All hell broke loose.” Sentence. Parapharse: “All of hell escaped and [went to Mardi Gras].” ---
**Author:** ![Sakura](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@Sakura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sakura)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2000, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evenly-misquoted-expressions/29760/80 "2000-08-19T02:05:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JayLa \* > If it’s something someone’s especially good at, it’s pronounced “fort”; Are you writing that without pronouncing the “t” or pronouncing the letter all French apparently dislike? If it’s somthing’s some one’s particulary good at, it’s pronounced “fore” with a slightly longer “o”. If it’s pronounced “for_t_” then it’s what Davy Crokett protected from them Injuns in the Wild West. If we’re talking about movie expressions then I have one. **"Luke, I am your father."** vs. **“No, _I_ am your father.”** Drives me batty every time I hear the incorrect former. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evenly-misquoted-expressions/29760.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/evenly-misquoted-expressions/29760.md?page=5)