# Ever get the attitude: you work hard, but since you love your job it doesn't really "count"? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 25, 2010, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-attitude-you-work-hard-but-since-you-love-your-job-it-doesnt-really-count/530352 "2010-02-25T02:47:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-attitude-you-work-hard-but-since-you-love-your-job-it-doesnt-really-count/530352/21 "2010-02-25T20:31:14Z")
> [@BetsQ](#): > > I’m totally with **Divine Comedienne** on this one. I remember a lengthy rant I directed at Mr.Q when he came home one day while I was doing the SAHM thing. He had the temerity to mention _reading a newspaper article at lunch!!_ I was so freaking pissed. Why? Was it because he read a newspaper, or because he mentioned reading a newspaper? ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-attitude-you-work-hard-but-since-you-love-your-job-it-doesnt-really-count/530352/22 "2010-02-25T20:56:37Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Why? Was it because he read a newspaper, or because he mentioned reading a newspaper? Without speaking for **DC** I imagine its because he had both a quiet half hour to spend in pleasurable idleness, and the gall to inform her of the fact at a time when she was lacking in same. Like if you’re really tired, and someone comes up and tells you what a nice nap they had on a nice comfy bed, you kind of want to strangle them. Am I the only one whose irony meter exploded because the OP apparently doesn’t consider what his wife does “work?” (“back when she was working…”) Perhaps because she… enjoys it? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-attitude-you-work-hard-but-since-you-love-your-job-it-doesnt-really-count/530352/23 "2010-02-25T21:13:01Z")
> [@dangermom](#): > > I wouldn’t agree with that. I like being a SAHM. It’s just not easy and you don’t get a lot of breaks. But some gumption and determination go a long way–anyone can figure out how to get some breaks if they try. And it’s the most flexible, self-determined job around. No one is telling me what to do and as long as my kids are healthy and cared for we can do whatever we want. Not to mention that you can’t tell your boss “because I said so!” ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-attitude-you-work-hard-but-since-you-love-your-job-it-doesnt-really-count/530352/24 "2010-02-25T21:15:12Z")
> [@CutterJohn](#): > > I just spent 3 hours at the airport, 5 hours flying, rented a car and drove 2 hours.. You can drive the 20 minutes it takes to visit me! But you were _flying_ – that’s fun and exotic, travelling here and there, seeing the world and such. That’s not work, it’s pleasure! So how about you come over and tell me all about it? ---
**Author:** ![Kiros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/439d5e/32.png) [@Kiros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiros)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-attitude-you-work-hard-but-since-you-love-your-job-it-doesnt-really-count/530352/25 "2010-02-25T21:20:12Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > A five year old is plenty old enough to go without supervision - ours were in pre-school part time by this age. I even blinked at this a bit - age 5 should be at least kindergarden, if not first grade, shouldn’t it? As for the OP: I don’t really want to get in the whole SAHM thing (my own dear mother was such and I am very thankful for that), but more generally, I think it might be as simple as the divide between the mindset of strictly 9 to 5, and the mindset of getting the needed work done. I know a couple of people at work who get in a few (or more) minutes late every morning and are out the door at 5:01 each evening, and just see it as the Way Things Should Be, to the point where they don’t really understand why I would stay an extra half hour to clean up some odds and ends. It’s just a way of seeing the world. ---
**Author:** ![Emily\_Litella](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emily_litella/32/3370_2.png) [@Emily\_Litella](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emily_Litella)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-attitude-you-work-hard-but-since-you-love-your-job-it-doesnt-really-count/530352/26 "2010-02-25T21:23:19Z")
I’m seeing this from your wifes’ point of view too. I was in a similar situation, I was a SaHM. My ex worked in a plant where all he had to do was walk around and check gauges for 5 minutes every hour. The other 55 minutes of each hour he would read or do wood sculpting and he used to bring home little sculptures he made while on company time. When his car crapped out he started using mine instead of buying another one for himself. We lived in a town that was far from friends and family, and I started feeling very isolated. The nearest park was 12 blocks away. So, yeah, every night when my ex got home from work and said he was tired and wanted to take a nap, every night I got upset. He felt that feeding and changing and bathing the kid was my job along with cleaning, cooking, and food shopping. He helped out by doing the laundry on Saturdays; he’d take the clothes over to his brothers’ house in the morning and come home 7 -8 hours later. To say I was resentful is an understatement. I remember I couldn’t wait to go back to work and pay for child care if only for my sanitys’ sake. You do notice I’m referring to him as my ex, right? You should talk to your wife about this, see how she really feels about staying home with the kid and see what she really wants to do, or see if there’s anything you can do to help her out. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-attitude-you-work-hard-but-since-you-love-your-job-it-doesnt-really-count/530352/27 "2010-02-25T21:24:16Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Why? Was it because he read a newspaper, or because he mentioned reading a newspaper? Yeah, I don’t get that example either. When my wife was a SAHM, she had time to read the _Wall Street Journal_ and the local newspaper daily. Also had no problem being able to watch _Buffy_ during the day, either. Now, whether she was constantly interrupted or not, I can’t say. But her BtVS fandom coincided with her being a SAHM. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-attitude-you-work-hard-but-since-you-love-your-job-it-doesnt-really-count/530352/28 "2010-02-26T00:10:23Z")
> [@DivineComedienne](#): > > Do you expect her to break into a lap dance for you and give you a massage and a martini simply because you managed to stroll home before midnight? but . . . she \*does \*do that for me most days. 😕 Should I be feeling guilty? 😛 You’re reading a lot of your own life into my brief & minor complaint. Needless to say, our lives aren’t anything like you describe here. I am thankful that we live in a bit more of traditional society where my wife and I can count on some pretty good family support. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-attitude-you-work-hard-but-since-you-love-your-job-it-doesnt-really-count/530352/29 "2010-02-26T00:25:37Z")
> [@Kiros](#): > > I even blinked at this a bit - age 5 should be at least kindergarden, if not first grade, shouldn’t it? > > As for the OP: I don’t really want to get in the whole SAHM thing (my own dear mother was such and I am very thankful for that), but more generally, I think it might be as simple as the divide between the mindset of strictly 9 to 5, and the mindset of getting the needed work done. I know a couple of people at work who get in a few (or more) minutes late every morning and are out the door at 5:01 each evening, and just see it as the Way Things Should Be, to the point where they don’t really understand why I would stay an extra half hour to clean up some odds and ends. It’s just a way of seeing the world. I think the whole SAHM thing was a bit of a side track – I’m perfectly willing to be a SAHD if the need arises, and yes, I know it’s work – though not from a paid “employment” standpoint, unless you count being paid in brown daily dividends\*. No, it’s Kiros’s comment above that I was trying to articulate. As long as we’ve been together (and long before the kid) my wife has been one of those folks who say, “why would you _want_ to stay in the office one minute longer than necessary?” \*To prove that I help out with the pooping (and the bathing, and the story time, and everything else) I happen to know that our girl declares that it’s time for her poop to “go to work” and the toilet is the “factory”. I respond that that’s pretty much how I feel some days. ---
**Author:** ![pbbth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f9ae1b/32.png) [@pbbth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pbbth)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-attitude-you-work-hard-but-since-you-love-your-job-it-doesnt-really-count/530352/30 "2010-02-26T01:02:32Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > No, it’s Kiros’s comment above that I was trying to articulate. As long as we’ve been together (and long before the kid) my wife has been one of those folks who say, “why would you _want_ to stay in the office one minute longer than necessary?” I am sort of that way. I like my job and the people I work with but unless there is an emergency that requires all hands on deck I am in the office at 8:50 and gone at 5:01. That half hour I could stay late to finish up stuff is 30 fewer minutes I get to spend walking with my fiance in the park or snorgling a kitten belly or trying on wedding dresses. I work to support the lifestyle I want to live and to keep myself busy during the day, otherwise what would be the point of working? My boss and our CEO feel the same way and encourage everyone to get out of the office no later than 5:30 because they want their employees to have a healthy work/life balance. Neither mindset is right or wrong and both sides are doing what they think is best for their families but they have different ideas of what constitutes “best” so they approach it differently. ---
**Author:** ![BetsQ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/fbc32d/32.png) [@BetsQ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BetsQ)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-attitude-you-work-hard-but-since-you-love-your-job-it-doesnt-really-count/530352/31 "2010-02-26T18:33:08Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Why? Was it because he read a newspaper, or because he mentioned reading a newspaper? I think our first kid was around 3-4 months old when this particular meltdown happened. QKid was very insistent upon being held at all times. I was generally OK with that, but it meant that I didn’t do anything other than take care of the baby all day. So, when my husband comes home from what I perceive as a leisurely day at the office and I haven’t done anything other than hold baby and change diapers all day, the unfairness of it all pushed me over the edge. If I’m miserable, I want everyone else to be miserable, too. 🙂 Happily, the SAHM phases of my life have been pretty short. ---
**Author:** ![Kiros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/439d5e/32.png) [@Kiros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiros)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-attitude-you-work-hard-but-since-you-love-your-job-it-doesnt-really-count/530352/32 "2010-02-26T20:17:10Z")
> [@pbbth](#): > > Neither mindset is right or wrong and both sides are doing what they think is best for their families but they have different ideas of what constitutes “best” so they approach it differently. Yup, it’s definitely not necessarily a “better” or “worse”, but it’s something where you would at least want to be in harmony in terms of what’s expected. Especially since in a lot of fields now it’s a matter of career preservation and/or advancement to put in even some token face time - and if your boss is watching that sort of thing, even an extra 15-20 minutes can be significant. I’m not saying it _should_ be, just that it often is, and that that may also be something of note to be communicated. I know that in my office we preach work/life balance, but there’s still people who look down at you a bit if you’re out at 5 even more than a day or two a week. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-attitude-you-work-hard-but-since-you-love-your-job-it-doesnt-really-count/530352/33 "2010-02-26T20:37:47Z")
> [@pbbth](#): > > That half hour I could stay late to finish up stuff is 30 fewer minutes I get to spend walking with my fiance in the park or snorgling a kitten belly or trying on wedding dresses. I think you’ve probably hit the root of the issue, there. I love what I do and most of the people I work with, but by the end of my 10-hour shift, I’m ready to go the hell home and see my sweetie and fuzzbutts. Every extra minute I spend doing stuff at work that could just as well wait till tomorrow is time that’s taken away from the pleasures of my personal life, an intrusion into the handful of hours a day my husband and I are both home and awake at the same time. If you’re going to ask me to give up that time, you had damn well better be offering me money, power, or an equivalent amount of enjoyment to make the trade equitable. It sounds like the OP doesn’t need money to make it seem like an equitable trade, and he doesn’t mention power or other work benefits to staying late, so that implies that he gets enough enjoyment out of working late to make it worth his trouble. Frankly, if my husband enjoyed working enough that it didn’t bother him to cut into family time to do more work he’s not getting paid for, I wouldn’t feel all that bad for him on the days he felt like he’d worked too much either. ---
**Author:** ![palacheck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a88e57/32.png) [@palacheck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/palacheck)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-attitude-you-work-hard-but-since-you-love-your-job-it-doesnt-really-count/530352/34 "2010-02-27T11:40:38Z")
> [@DivineComedienne](#): > > Lucky you, your kids napped! My younger kid didn’t nap for more than 45 minutes at a stretch for the first four months, and didn’t sleep more than 3 hours in a row at night for the first 19 months (and consequently, neither did I). > > Playgroups are not “breaks”. Mom is still on duty, making snacks, refereeing arguments, etc. > > You have obviously never been home with a 5-year-old who HAS to go to the bathroom at the same moment as their caregiver (even if said caregiver ASKS the child beforehand). Or tried to pee with a 5-year-old standing at the door, talking to you through the door, the entire time. Every time. > > It’s Hell to be a SAHM. The hardest job in the world. I’ve been a SAHD, and though it was only for 15 months, it was most certainly NOT the hardest job I’ve ever had. Before I made a career in sales I worked for 4 years in construction. 12 hour days moving patio blocks and digging trenches makes child care seem like a walk in the park. However, being a SAHParent does make working in an office seem laughable in comparison so I will give you that. Your post comes off as bitter and having more to do with your bad experiences than the actual OP. ---
**Author:** ![DivineComedienne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c67d28/32.png) [@DivineComedienne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DivineComedienne)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-attitude-you-work-hard-but-since-you-love-your-job-it-doesnt-really-count/530352/35 "2010-02-27T13:58:23Z")
> [@palacheck](#): > > I’ve been a SAHD, and though it was only for 15 months, it was most certainly NOT the hardest job I’ve ever had. Before I made a career in sales I worked for 4 years in construction. 12 hour days moving patio blocks and digging trenches makes child care seem like a walk in the park. However, being a SAHParent does make working in an office seem laughable in comparison so I will give you that. > > Your post comes off as bitter and having more to do with your bad experiences than the actual OP. Oh, I wholeheartedly and freely admit that I am bitter about my experiences as a SAHM - I used the same word in my first post to this thread. But the actual OP said this: > [@](#): > > When I come home, though, I occasionally get a bit of the cold shoulder because (it seems I’m getting the message) I was in the office all day “enjoying myself.”…So feeling worn out from working (not that it’s so often) gets me about the same modicum of sympathy as if I were whining about a hangover. So, what I got from this OP was that he doesn’t understand why, when he comes home and is tired after a 14-hour day, his wife doesn’t ooh and ahh over his weariness. And I have been in her shoes, so I tried to show him her point of view; she just worked the same 14-hour day with a baby - I wonder how much “sympathy” he gives her at the end of HER day. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2010, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-attitude-you-work-hard-but-since-you-love-your-job-it-doesnt-really-count/530352/36 "2010-02-28T18:34:35Z")
> [@DivineComedienne](#): > > Oh, I wholeheartedly and freely admit that I am bitter about my experiences as a SAHM - I used the same word in my first post to this thread. > > So, what I got from this OP was that he doesn’t understand why, when he comes home and is tired after a 14-hour day, his wife doesn’t ooh and ahh over his weariness. And I have been in her shoes, so I tried to show him her point of view; she just worked the same 14-hour day with a baby - I wonder how much “sympathy” he gives her at the end of HER day. As I stated upthread, the picture you’re drawing has nothing to do with reality. When our daughter was an infant, I put my career on hold and was more nearly a stay-at-home parent than my wife was, in some respects (we were both working, but I took care of all the pickups and dropoffs to daycare and was always the one who stayed at home when the baby was sick). Now, it’s true that my wife is staying at home taking care of our four year old more while I’m working full time. (You may find this utterly flabbergasting, but some women do tend to prefer this arrangement.) Most days I get home after a nine-hour day and maybe one day out of three I take care of all the bathing and what not – and I _always_ do bedtime stories. At least twice a week, I take our daughter out to her class or to the park – not out of a sense of obligation to my “poor wife”, but because I enjoy it. And, by the way, we live with my wife’s relatives, who most time are close at hand and absolutely trustworthy to take care of the kid when my wife needs a break. Sorry, but once again, the bile you’ve built up through your lousy experiences is really bringing you to make some elephantine assumptions about a perfect stranger. I can only imagine the nastiness you inflict on your friends and family. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2010, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-attitude-you-work-hard-but-since-you-love-your-job-it-doesnt-really-count/530352/37 "2010-02-28T19:33:13Z")
> [@DivineComedienne](#): > > So, what I got from this OP was that he doesn’t understand why, when he comes home and is tired after a 14-hour day, his wife doesn’t ooh and ahh over his weariness. And I have been in her shoes, so I tried to show him her point of view; she just worked the same 14-hour day with a baby - I wonder how much “sympathy” he gives her at the end of HER day. It works both ways you know. While you are home raising the family and taking care of the household, he has to spend 14 hours a day (plus commute) with people he probably doesn’t care for, trying to please a demanding boss or clients, doing work he probably doesn’t particularly like so you can bitch about spending all day in the house his labor is paying for. It’s a little selfish and childish to think one job is “harder” or “counts more” than the other. Each has a role in the household and each is important. If I was married to someone with your attitude, well, if you think being a SAHM is hard, imagine being a SAHSM (Stay At Home SINGLE Mom). ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2010, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-attitude-you-work-hard-but-since-you-love-your-job-it-doesnt-really-count/530352/38 "2010-02-28T22:09:24Z")
I am an artist. I do paintings, graphics and photography. I work 7 days a week, and longer hours than anyone else I know. This is after years and years of working for other people and hating my jobs. Yet one of my relatives says things to me like “It must be nice not to have a job.” ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2010, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-attitude-you-work-hard-but-since-you-love-your-job-it-doesnt-really-count/530352/39 "2010-03-01T03:31:53Z")
I once heard a saying that “the best way to ruin a perfectly good hobby is to make it your job”. ---
**Author:** ![Tamex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Tamex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamex)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2010, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-attitude-you-work-hard-but-since-you-love-your-job-it-doesnt-really-count/530352/40 "2010-03-01T06:04:22Z")
I got that attitude when I was a SAHM (which I generally enjoyed quite a bit). It really didn’t count because I wasn’t getting paid, either, so it wasn’t really “work”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-attitude-you-work-hard-but-since-you-love-your-job-it-doesnt-really-count/530352.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-attitude-you-work-hard-but-since-you-love-your-job-it-doesnt-really-count/530352.md?page=3)