# Ever get the urge to deface or destroy religious propoganda in a public place? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 11, 2009, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055 "2009-03-11T10:10:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055/181 "2009-03-14T19:35:04Z")
> [@RTA](#): > > I do this all the time with Scientology crap, does that count? Whenever I go into a public place, and I see a pile of Dianetics cards or personality tests or whatever, I swipe the whole pile and put it in the nearest trashcan. > > I’ve also gone through a whole stack of free weekly newspapers, pulling the Scieno flyers from each one. I spent an afternoon removing Dianetics posters that had been stapled to every single light pole in the neighborhood, and would do it again in a heartbeat. I don’t go out of my way to do that with other religions - Scientology is a special case. I’ve picked up the Jack Chick tracts some previous rider littered the bus with, but that is partially annoyance with litter in general. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055/182 "2009-03-14T21:11:58Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > What you can’t get around is that someone who isn’t a jerk can very well avoid having his sensibilities offended by leaving the Gideon Bible where it is, in the reasonable expectation that someone else might like it. And even you know you’re reaching, because you have to pretend it’s the same as disposing of scat porn. > > Before the rented room was your personal space, no-one needed your permission to leave anything there. After you’re gone, it will no longer be offending you. While you are there, it is a small unobtrusive red book which you, being the objective rational thinker you are, can dismiss as an antiquated tome of primitive superstitions having no power to offend you. That anyone chooses to make further issue of it speaks volumes about their own issues and maturity. If it’s abandoned in my space, it’s my property. Who do you think you are to tell me what to do with my property? If I find scat porn in my room am I allwed to throw it away, or must I preserve it and leave it for the next guest? Please explain the difference between what I am allowed to do with scat porn and what I’m allowed to do with God porn. Until you can do that, you have no case fort “jerkiness.” ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055/183 "2009-03-14T21:15:13Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > It’s more like the shower cap, shoe shine cloth, or decaf coffee packets you aren’t going to use. Do you throw them away, in the interests of “tidying up”, or do you just leave them be for the next guest? > > Because that’s what adults do. No, it’s like a porn magazine someone forgot on the toilet tank. It’s garbage left lying around. It’s not like soaps or shampoos because the hotel _pays_ for those. They don’t pay for the advertising litter and the unsolicited God porn. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055/184 "2009-03-14T21:19:25Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > I don’t think people are missing the point about it being that person’s personal property. There are lots of things that the hotel leaves in there, considering that it might not be there when you leave, and that’s just fine. You can take the soap, the shampoo, the laundry bag, and no one will object or charge you for it. I think where people are getting stuck is in a different place. It’s that they don’t agree that such property should just be destroyed, simply because it’s your property to do with as you wish. It’s one thing if you take the stuff because you are going to legitimately use it, but if you aren’t, it seems a bit overly jerkish to remove it or destroy it. The hotel pays for the soaps and the shampoos. It doesn’t pay for the Bibles and the pizza menus. I wish somebody would answer the question about porn magazines being left in the room. Why is it different to thrwo away a free porn magazine than to throw away a free Bible. For some people, the Bible is a lot more offensive. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055/185 "2009-03-14T23:11:25Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I wish somebody would answer the question about porn magazines being left in the room. Why is it different to thrwo away a free porn magazine than to throw away a free Bible. For some people, the Bible is a lot more offensive. No one is answering because it’s a false argument. No (legitimate) hotels leave porn lying around for the guests. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055/186 "2009-03-14T23:24:07Z")
Whether they actually do it is an irrelevant objection. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055/187 "2009-03-14T23:29:59Z")
I’ve got to agree with the Cynic there. I also find the ‘effort and resources are spent replacing them’ argument weak. The effort is minimal, and from many perspectives the real waste of trees and power was printing the Bibles in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055/188 "2009-03-14T23:36:28Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Whether they actually do it is an irrelevant objection. It’s not an objection, your whole premise is false. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055/189 "2009-03-14T23:49:10Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Wouldn’t that be redundant, since most portraits of Jesus show him with a moustache already? (As well as a full beard?) > > **Diogenes** -grow up. It has been my impression that **Diogenes** is arguing mostly hypothetically; didn’t he say upthread that he wouldn’t bother tossing a Bible in a trash can himself, but doesn’t think doing so is illegal? ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055/190 "2009-03-14T23:54:25Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > It has been my impression that **Diogenes** is arguing mostly hypothetically; didn’t he say upthread that he wouldn’t bother tossing a Bible in a trash can himself, but doesn’t think doing so is illegal? No one’s argued that it is illegal, rather that there doesn’t seem to be a point to it, other than simple childishness. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2009, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055/191 "2009-03-15T00:26:10Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > It’s not an objection, your whole premise is false. I don’t think you know what a premise is. What you’re objecting to is an analogy, not a premise. Analogies don’t have to be plausible, they just have to be analogous. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2009, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055/192 "2009-03-15T00:29:36Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > No one’s argued that it is illegal, rather that there doesn’t seem to be a point to it, other than simple childishness. If you fimnd literature abandoned in your private, rented space which is deeply offensive to you, it is neither pointless nor childish to throw it away. To some people finding a Bible is like finding porn or like finding _Mein Kampf_. What do you think of the fundies who trash Books of Mormon? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2009, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055/193 "2009-03-15T00:34:43Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > It has been my impression that **Diogenes** is arguing mostly hypothetically; didn’t he say upthread that he wouldn’t bother tossing a Bible in a trash can himself, but doesn’t think doing so is illegal? That’s correct, this is all hypothetical to me. I’ve never done this, nor would I, but I don’t think I need to be offended if someone else does it. Personally, I wouldn’t throw away porn either. If I found something like _The Turner Diaries_, I probably would, though. ---
**Author:** ![Suse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Suse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suse)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2009, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055/194 "2009-03-15T00:40:41Z")
I think a lot of the problem I have with the argument that throwing away a Bible is the same as disposing of trash is that **Ianzin** expects to find it in the drawer. He’s looking for it with the intent of throwing it away; in other words, making a statement. He has options which include not opening the drawer, requesting at the time of check-in to have the Bible removed from his room or even calling ahead and requesting the same. Pizza menus and porn, on the other hand, are random items that may or may not be in a room. Pizza menus are certainly more common. I tend not to touch those either; I also never use them so I have no reason to touch them. And if I were to find porn in a room, while I would consider it random trash that was inadvertently overlooked by the housekeeping staff, rather than throw it away I would request another room - if they managed to miss porn, what else did they miss when they were cleaning the room? I can handle the idea of someone disliking the Bible; what is harder for me to comprehend is the idea that throwing away any book is okay. I just can’t do that. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2009, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055/195 "2009-03-15T00:52:50Z")
I feel the same innate repulsion about destroying books, but what if that book is _The Turner Diaries_ or _The NAMBLA Manifesto_? (I’m just talking about if you find them in your room, not destroying them on a macro level). ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2009, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055/196 "2009-03-15T00:55:51Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I feel the same innate repulsion about destroying books, but what if that book is _The Turner Diaries_ or _The NAMBLA Manifesto_? (I’m just talking about if you find them in your room, not destroying them on a macro level). If you find _The Nambla Manifesto_ in your hotel room, you must immediately complain about it to the management for both practical and pecuniary reasons. The practical reasons is that, given the current paranoia about child molesters, you don’t want the maid finding it and thinking it’s yours. Trouble ensues. The pecuniary reason is that the hotel manager will be so embarassed that s/she will comp your room. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2009, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055/197 "2009-03-15T00:56:21Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > If you fimnd literature abandoned in your private, rented space which is deeply offensive to you, it is neither pointless nor childish to throw it away. To some people finding a Bible is like finding porn or like finding _Mein Kampf_. There are many things left in a hotel room for the use of the guests. Provided by the hotel, pizza parlors, or the Gideons, doesn’t really matter. I use what I want to, and leave the rest for others to use, or not, as they wish. No drama involved. Throwing it out because it’s an “offensive” thing like a Bible :rolleyes: strikes me as childish footstamping, and being a jerk. That’s MHO. Your mileage varies. So what? ---
**Author:** ![Suse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Suse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suse)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2009, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055/198 "2009-03-15T01:35:15Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I feel the same innate repulsion about destroying books, but what if that book is _The Turner Diaries_ or _The NAMBLA Manifesto_? (I’m just talking about if you find them in your room, not destroying them on a macro level). Most likely I would return them to the front desk, to be honest, assuming that some other (very misguided) person had left them behind. And then I might well request another room on the same basis as finding porn; what else wasn’t cleaned properly if this was missed? But what troubles me about the idea of throwing away Bibles besides throwing away a book is that it’s not random; people know it’s there and can take steps to avoid seeing it or even having it in the room. You can’t avoid what you don’t know is going to be there, like porn, used Kleenexes, or The NAMBLA Manifesto. There is no reasonable expectation that those would be in any given room like there is with the Bible. ---
**Author:** ![AngelSoft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelsoft/32/440_2.png) [@AngelSoft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngelSoft)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2009, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055/199 "2009-03-15T02:27:11Z")
I’ve never had the desire to deface anything but I was certainly tempted to do a bit of mean spirited trickery once. Years ago I was living in a small town in Wyoming and there was a book store there that would put a cardboard cutout of Jesus behind their doors at closing. So if you walked past the door after hours you’d see Jesus staring out at you. It was kinda creepy honestly and for some reason it really annoyed me. For the longest time I entertained the thought of getting a cardboard cutout of Satan and setting him up outside the door one night and somehow, someway, affix a plate of cookies in hands. Unfortunately, my plan wasn’t to be because as much as I looked, I was unable to find such a cutout. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Weird\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@The\_Weird\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Weird_One)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2009, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055/200 "2009-03-15T02:48:50Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > You could say all the same stuff about throwing away scat porn magazines that you find in your room. Dammit, I hate when people do that! Scat porn mags aren’t free, you know, and it takes a lot of time to go round to all the rooms and replace the ones that have been thrown out. :mad: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055.md?page=11)