# Ever get the urge to deface or destroy religious propoganda in a public place? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 11, 2009, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055 "2009-03-11T10:10:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055/21 "2009-03-11T14:41:40Z")
Are you kidding? I’m a librarian. The idea of destroying a book/paper/piece of writing or censoring any idea just because it’s contrary to my personal beliefs goes against pretty much everything I believe in. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055/22 "2009-03-11T14:43:41Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > No, I’ve never had that urge. > > I scribbled out the apostrophe on a “tip’s jar” sign at a cafe recently, though. Does that count? How do you know it really wasn’t his? ---
**Author:** ![Wallenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wallenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallenstein)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055/23 "2009-03-11T14:45:40Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > No, I’ve never had that urge. > > I scribbled out the apostrophe on a “tip’s jar” sign at a cafe recently, though. Does that count? depends if “tip” is the manager’s name, and she’s now pissed off that someone ruined the sign she put on her favourite jar ---
**Author:** ![davekhps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@davekhps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davekhps)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055/24 "2009-03-11T14:47:32Z")
I’m going to assume you are American. If so, ours is a free country. FREE, as in freedom. If you don’t like what they’re doing, debate them, protest them, ridicule them or condemn them, in the light of public discourse. You’ll either win the argument and convince others that you are correct, or you will fail, and thus live peacefully with the consequences. DENYING them their turn? That’s just thuggish behavior. Not just jackassery, but actually un-American. We don’t have to do that here. You want to be brave and contrarian? [Deface some posters in Beirut](http://michaeltotten.com/archives/2009/02/christopher-hit.php). ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055/25 "2009-03-11T14:55:31Z")
It’s not exceedingly rare for me to see 30 or so flyers for a coffee shop, a concert or something else pasted on a wall or a bus shelter. It’s not exceedingly rare for me to see flyers printed on bright flourescent paper saying “I LOST 45 LBS ASK ME HOW” stuck on every surface imaginable over a 3-block radius. It’s not exceedingly rare for people on the street to try to sell me badly printed newsletters, ask for donations, or shove handbills at me. Yet somehow I manage to resist any temptation I might have to tear down, deface, punch out or vandalize those things and people that offend me. It’s called being mature. Try it sometime. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055/26 "2009-03-11T15:02:54Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > [Dilbert]When did ignorance become a point of view?[/Dilbert] > > If it’s not your property, don’t throw it in the trash. Just leave the drawer shut where the offending article won’t sully your vision. Actually, the Gideon Bibles _are_ the guest’ property. They are intended to be gifts for the guests from the Gideons (not from the hotel, though they get the hotel’s permission), and they are intended to be taken. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055/27 "2009-03-11T15:12:17Z")
Words like “intolerance” and “freedom” are kind of over the top here. All we’re talking about is defacing litter, not someone else’s property, and not interfering with anyone else’s rights. It doesn’t hurt anybody or suppress their rights to draw a cock and balls on their paper spam. It’s not like we’re talking about going into someone else’s house, we’re talking about garbage left at bus stops. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055/28 "2009-03-11T15:23:42Z")
BS, it is disrupting a message just because the defacer doesn’t like the message. I’m better than that. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055/29 "2009-03-11T15:33:17Z")
> [@Mojo\_Pin](#): > > Honestly though, how many thinking people have been converted by one night of sleep in a room that happened to have a bible in it? It’s not exactly the most persuasive book ever, and that’s assuming anyone ever cracks it open. No, I think moldy isolation and eventual disintegration in the corner of a dusty bottom drawer, forgotten and ignored, is exactly the fate the bible deserves. Gideon Bibles aren’t for converting people, per se; they’re so that people in need of comfort will have somewhere to turn when they’re away from home and lonely. Personally, I think they’d do much better to leave a bottle of Jack Daniels’ in every hotel room. ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055/30 "2009-03-11T15:40:51Z")
When I was in college I was an officer of the gaming group on campus. We put up fliers regularly trying to attract new people to group. In several buildings, we noticed that our fliers were always gone the next day, but we weren’t getting a lot of new people. So one day a couple of us put out fliers like normal, and sat down on nearby benches to see what happened to the fliers. We saw people coming up to the board, examining it, and then tearing our fliers down and throwing them away. We confronted one of them, and he told us that we were going to hell for playing satanic games, and then ran off. We actually recognized one of the people involved as being from Campus Crusade for Christ. It was an organized effort that happened multiple times a week. Don’t be like them, leave the fliers alone. If you want to do something about it, put your own fliers up without disturbing theirs. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055/31 "2009-03-11T15:50:41Z")
I’m on the side of “why be childish about it?” Broadcast messages like that, especially totally passive ones like hotel-room Gideon Bibles and flyers, don’t affect me at all. Frankly, I’m better off when the religious DON’T think all atheists are vandals and/or mouth-breathing cretins. ---
**Author:** ![Tamex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Tamex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamex)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055/32 "2009-03-11T16:13:47Z")
No, I never have. I’ve never even considered stealing the baby Jesus out of a manger scene, although when that did happen to one of my religious coworkers, I definitely had to stifle a strong urge to laugh. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055/33 "2009-03-11T16:17:11Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > BS, it is disrupting a message just because the defacer doesn’t like the message. I’m better than that. It’s not disrupting the speech, just rejecting it. People can write whatever they want and leave it at bus stops, that doesn’t mean they have some kind of right for their litter to be preserved as holy writ for all time. Once they abandon it in a public place, they lose all ownership over it. Do you really think there’s a civil rights issue here? When I was playing in bands, I would sometimes get involved in flyer wars with other bands (they rip down your shit and put up their own. You respond in kind. Rinse and repeat). Should I have called the police to report my flyers being ripped down or having the word “SUCKS” written under the band name? Were my rights being violated? Was I a victim? ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055/34 "2009-03-11T16:34:29Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Gideon Bibles aren’t for converting people, per se; they’re so that people in need of comfort will have somewhere to turn when they’re away from home and lonely. > > Personally, I think they’d do much better to leave a bottle of Jack Daniels’ in every hotel room. You got something against hookers? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055/35 "2009-03-11T16:39:24Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > …When I was playing in bands, I would sometimes get involved in flyer wars with other bands (they rip down your shit and put up their own. You respond in kind. Rinse and repeat). Should I have called the police to report my flyers being ripped down or having the word “SUCKS” written under the band name? Were my rights being violated? Was I a victim? I don’t know. Did your band suck? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055/36 "2009-03-11T16:44:35Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > You got something against hookers? No, but if you leave them in a hotel nightstand for weeks on end they start to smell funny. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055/37 "2009-03-11T16:57:17Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > I don’t know. Did your band suck? Well, yeah, but so did the other band. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055/38 "2009-03-11T17:08:20Z")
I get that urge, especially when religion has seemed especially harmful recently, for example when politicians are using it to keep people from getting medical help, or when it’s used to fan the flames of war. I find displays of religiosity pretty offensive. But I’ve never acted on it, and wouldn’t. It’s a whimsical urge, the sort of thing that pops up when thoughts are idle, not the sort of thing I give much consideration to. Like stripping and jumping into a public fountain, or cutting the roof off my house because it’s a pretty day, or sneaking into a stranger’s wedding to speak up when they ask “If anybody knows any reason why…”. I like to tolerate free speech including even outrageously minority views, and don’t feel any real inclination towards any kind of vandalism. But, yes, a brief urge, I notice that. ---
**Author:** ![Jettboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@Jettboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jettboy)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055/39 "2009-03-11T17:10:59Z")
I’m fascinated by religious imagery and religion’s attempts to mesh with pop culture, sometimes perversely so. I’d never deface any religious propaganda (I respect everyones right to believe whatever asinine mythology they cotton to; as long as they don’t step on my Happy Shoes), but if it’s interesting enough, I might _steal_ it. ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055/40 "2009-03-11T17:11:17Z")
I’m normally fiercely in favor of free speech and all that, but my reaction to ripping down a Bible study poster is not so much that it is oppressive/offensive as it is sort of a pathetic gesture. What difference does it make if a few goody two shoes who like talking about the Bible make it to the Bible study or not? And throwing away a Bible in a hotel room is like the most completely non-risky, passive way to stand up for your beliefs ever, since there is pretty much zero chance anyone will notice or care that you did it. If you want me to respect you for being a totally bad ass atheist rebel, do something useful and also slightly courageous by protesting outside your local Scientology recruitment center or telling a few Islamic fundamentalists how stupid and backwards their beliefs are. But of course, you’d never do that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-get-the-urge-to-deface-or-destroy-religious-propoganda-in-a-public-place/489055.md?page=3)