# Ever had service provider criticize how much you tipped? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 2, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-had-service-provider-criticize-how-much-you-tipped/562720 "2010-12-02T21:47:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-had-service-provider-criticize-how-much-you-tipped/562720/161 "2010-12-10T17:20:28Z")
Let me clear something up. I worked as a waitress for about 3 weeks once, when I was 18. I wasn’t good at it, and the owner had a “no tipping” policy, and it was an ice cream parlor. So my attitude about tipping isn’t because I’m a server, or because I worked for a long time as one. I don’t like the custom of tipping, and I wish that there were more options of eating out without tipping. If I order food or drinks at the counter, and pick up my order at the counter, no, I DON’T put any money in that tip jar. However, when I go into a restaurant, and sit down, and order something from the menu, the restaurant has every right to expect me to pay my bill. I entered a social contract when I went in and ordered. I also entered into a social contract with my server. True, one is legally enforceable and one isn’t, but in both cases I have indicated that I’m willing to pay for goods and services rendered. I do think that people who announce that “it’s customary to tip” for various services are pretty aggressive. And I think that they’re wrong, it’s NOT customary to tip for that service, but some people can be intimidated into tipping who might otherwise not tip. I view the tip jar as a way of pressuring people into tipping for a service that customarily has been provided as part of the price of the coffee or sandwich. I challenge the people who think that it’s OK not to tip to go into a restaurant, and let the server know up front that they don’t plan to tip. See if any server is willing to pay to serve you. ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-had-service-provider-criticize-how-much-you-tipped/562720/162 "2010-12-10T18:00:24Z")
> [@footballisplayedwithyourfeet](#): > > Just to be clear, when I was in the US and Canada I was very ‘when in Rome..’ about it and we tipped around 20%, but just really got fed up with the whole calculating and the constant wondering whether tipping was needed or not (especially while sitting at the bar!). I sort of felt like I was thinking or dealing with money-stuff all day long. The first time I was ever in the Netherlands I was simply tipping like I was back in the USA. It was actually a bartender (a stunning young woman at that) who asked me why I was leaving such a large amount as a tip, and then told me that I only needed to leave a few guilders, as was the custom there. It was the only time in my life that a service provider told me my tip was too generous and asked me to take most of it back… ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-had-service-provider-criticize-how-much-you-tipped/562720/163 "2010-12-10T18:21:09Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Except that it isn’t precisely true that its legal to pay them less than minimum wage. > > If their tip income + base does not equal minimum wage, the employer is required by federal law to make up the difference. But that’s just the point–it’s expected that they will be tipped to a level that will bring their income well above minimum wage. It’s my understanding that waiting tables is one of the best-paid jobs a person with no education, credentials, experience in a trade, etc. can get. Which is why people take a job that guarantees you will interact with some percentage of assholes–you’re compensated in a way that means you can support yourself, and possibly a family. > [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > The idea that I’m stealing if I don’t tip in the US is a new twist on this old argument - kudos to whoever brought that gem in. So, if I don’t tip in Canada where servers are paid at least minimum wage (which is $8 per hour in Alberta), am I stealing then, too? How about if I don’t tip the cashier at McDonald’s? I don’t buy that I have any part in the deal between the servers and their employers, I find it offensive that employers would expect their customers to make up the difference, and I find the idea that I’m stealing if I don’t tip laughable - you hire them, you pay them. Tipping is a social convention, not a legal obligation. I brought that in. Tipping in the U.S. is how it works. If you cannot afford the tip, you cannot afford the meal. It’s left to your discretion how much to tip so that you can base it on the service you receive. 15% is absolutely expected for adequate service. A cashier at a fast food restaurant is not a waiter; a waiter in a country where tipping is not an expected part of the income who is paid a reasonable hourly wage is not a waiter in the U.S. who is paid a pittance and expected to make most of their income from tips. > [@Cicero](#): > > I was reading it more as “legally defined as theft” but appreciate your point. My apologies–the phrase was unintentionally ambiguous. My intent with “legal theft” was to indicate that it was theft in all but being illegal: i.e., you won’t be prosecuted for it, but it’s still stealing, because you implicitly agreed to pay the waiter for serving you if the service was adequate, and then declined to do so after having received the service. > [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > An interesting question occurs: Have any of the people who go around boasting how much they tip ever gone to a specialist electronics store and spent ages finding out information from the knowledgeable salespeople, fiddling with the product etc, then gone to a “Big Box” retailer (or purchased it online) to save money? No. I can’t stand people who do that. I’m sure I’ve mentioned my position on it more than once here, too. > [@BigT](#): > > Until I got to the SDMB, I’d never even heard of the idea that you tip anyone other than your waitress. I was raised by my mom to tip waiters, hotel housekeeping, taxi drivers, anyone in a hotel who provides a special service for me (e.g., brings up my bags or delivers complimentary toiletries to my room if I forgot mine), etc. And my family was not rich–I’d say we were smack-dab in the middle of the middle class. I don’t think my parents’ income would even have hit six figures if you’d combined them, and their divorce was finalized when I was 5. > [@Raginghormonal](#): > > But when we got the bill, they had already calculated a 32% tip and it was not an option not to pay it. If you talk to the management about it, AFAIK there’s \*always \*an option not to pay, \*if \*you explain that you’re not tipping because of specific complaints about the service. 32% is also \*ridiculously \*out of line for automatic gratuities. Was it a manager who told you the tip was required? If so, did you try contacting someone at the corporate office? ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-had-service-provider-criticize-how-much-you-tipped/562720/164 "2010-12-10T18:24:24Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > They auto-grat 32%? Normally it’s 18%. I’m surprised you didn’t raise more of a stink about that, 32% is insane. That’s what we thought too. They knew we were pissed, but made no attempts to placate us. We did ask for a supervisor, but we were told there wasn’t one available. As it was a birthday party, we just decided to let it go and not spoil the rest of the evening. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-had-service-provider-criticize-how-much-you-tipped/562720/165 "2010-12-10T18:26:40Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Was’t the mandatory gratuity posted on the menu ? Not that we noticed. It was our first (and only) visit. It was a huge menu though, so it’s certainly possible it was in small print somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-had-service-provider-criticize-how-much-you-tipped/562720/166 "2010-12-10T18:27:17Z")
> [@Raginghormonal](#): > > . But when we got the bill, they had already calculated a 32% tip and it was not an option not to pay it. They said it was policy for groups of ten or more. This can’t be correct. 32 percent?!? ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-had-service-provider-criticize-how-much-you-tipped/562720/167 "2010-12-10T19:44:25Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > I understand your reasoning perfectly, that doesn’t mean I have any respect for you when you then go on to say, > > It’s statements like \*that \*that make you a stingy asshole. **Moderator note** Whatever you think of **Martini Enfield’s** tipping behavior when visiting the States, it’s definitely wrong to insult people in this forum. Do not do this again. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-had-service-provider-criticize-how-much-you-tipped/562720/168 "2010-12-10T21:36:30Z")
> [@Raginghormonal](#): > > That’s what we thought too. They knew we were pissed, but made no attempts to placate us. We did ask for a supervisor, but we were told there wasn’t one available. As it was a birthday party, we just decided to let it go and not spoil the rest of the evening. Sounds like you got conned by your waitperson. If anybody ever has this happen to them, I’d strongly recommend either (a) holding out for a manager or (b) getting in touch with some sort of regional or corporate director ASAP after the incident. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-had-service-provider-criticize-how-much-you-tipped/562720/169 "2010-12-10T22:11:36Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > …And, honestly, I see all this extraneous tipping as a way to flaunt that you, unlike everyone else in the neighborhood, don’t live paycheck to paycheck. You’ve got money to burn… See, it is probably best not to make assumptions about folks. I don’t have money to burn (most people don’t). But I would rather go out to eat once a month and tip heavy than to go out 3 times a month and tip 25%. That’s my indulgence. It makes me feel good to know that the server is going to be happy and maybe even a bit surprised. And the perks are great, too. It’s a fun little thing for me. It would never occur to me to judge anyone about this just as it wouldn’t occur to me to judge those who spend their luxury money on art or movies or plays or fine wine. How odd. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-had-service-provider-criticize-how-much-you-tipped/562720/170 "2010-12-10T22:56:56Z")
Personally, I tip 20% because I can afford it, and I remember what it was like to work at a job where you got paid absolute shit. Working in coffeeshops through college, I never expected tips, but I was always grateful to get them, so especially when I’m in a situation where a tip is an intended part of the cost of the meal, I’m sure to contribute my fair share. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-had-service-provider-criticize-how-much-you-tipped/562720/171 "2010-12-11T01:15:43Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > This can’t be correct. > > 32 percent?!? Yes, it was. honest. Maybe we were being ripped off by the wait staff or something. It has been 4 years, so I’m not sure if I’m remembering the details fully, but IIRC, they said it was partially for the bar tap and partially for the food service. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-had-service-provider-criticize-how-much-you-tipped/562720/172 "2010-12-11T01:20:41Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Sounds like you got conned by your waitperson. If anybody ever has this happen to them, I’d strongly recommend either (a) holding out for a manager or (b) getting in touch with some sort of regional or corporate director ASAP after the incident. Yes, in hind sight, I think that might be what happened. The place was brand new and packed. We were just ready to get out of there and try to finish the night without anymore aggravation. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-had-service-provider-criticize-how-much-you-tipped/562720/173 "2010-12-11T01:31:54Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > I challenge the people who think that it’s OK not to tip to go into a restaurant, and let the server know up front that they don’t plan to tip. See if any server is willing to pay to serve you. I’ve done that before and still received perfectly adequate service. I made a point of seeking out the manager and complimenting the staff member. ---
**Author:** ![kidneyfailure](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9f8e36/32.png) [@kidneyfailure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidneyfailure)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-had-service-provider-criticize-how-much-you-tipped/562720/174 "2010-12-11T14:21:40Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Long time ago, in a chinese restaurant in Brooklyn Heights, I left a five on the table and left the restaurant (after paying the bill) and the waiter ran out onto the street after me, saying loudly “You no leave tip!” I re-entered the restaurant, plucked the five off the table, showed it to him put it in my pocket, and told him “NOW I no leave tip.” > > Strangely satisfying moment. I had the opposite scenario: couple years ago at a restaurant here in China (where tipping is unacceptable) I left a tip under the plate for a particularly good waiter, paid the bill, and walked out. He bounded out the door, ran up to me, and stuffed it in my hand and told me he wouldn’t accept it, that my continued patronage would be enough. OTOH, I’ve yet to meet the Chinese taxi driver who wont “keep the change.” ---
**Author:** ![causticsubstance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ba8739/32.png) [@causticsubstance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/causticsubstance)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2010, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-had-service-provider-criticize-how-much-you-tipped/562720/175 "2010-12-12T00:26:12Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Can you please elaborate on this statement? The way I am interpreting it, you will adjust your level of work quality based on how much of a perceived benefit you will get from the customer. Meaning, if someone falls outside your expected range of 17-25% to say, 15%, you will not serve them as well as other patrons. Please tell me this isn’t so, before I berate you for your shitty work ethic. The tip is there\* because\* the level of service can vary so wildly each dining experience. People who don’t care to tip the customary amount probably don’t care if their service is phenomenal or just adequate. Or if they do, then it’s probably going to be an irreconcilable disagreement: they think I’m entitled because I think I should get paid depending on how hard I work and how conscientious I am; I think they are entitled because they want to pay less than what everyone else does for personal, face-to-face handservice – with a smile. Furthermore, if I’m busy, every second of my time is valuable, and if I’m spending time with one party, some other party is being neglected. The party that isn’t going to tip well probably doesn’t care to have that much face time with me anyway. Furthermore, if spending more time with a stingy table is reducing my tips from tables where I can make more money. I like making people happy, but it’s not volunteer work, it’s my job and this is how I pay my bills. If you find this to be “shitty work ethic”, then pretty much every server in every restaurant you’ve been to has “shitty work ethic”. Like I said, baseline service, even for the stingy, is still pretty decent, so don’t freak out. But providing excellent service for someone who won’t pay for it isn’t just a waste of time, it’s a waste of money for me. As much as I would like to make everyone who walks into my restaurant feel good, I’m primarily there to pay rent. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2010, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-had-service-provider-criticize-how-much-you-tipped/562720/176 "2010-12-12T05:09:28Z")
> [@causticsubstance](#): > > Eating out is a _luxury_. You don’t feel like cooking, so you’re telling someone else what to cook for you exactly in the way you like your food made, and then you sit down and you don’t have to get anything yourself, you ask someone to do it for you, which they do, and they have to be happy about it too. People don’t consider this a luxury nowadays because it’s pretty commonplace to eat out. You are tipping a server, who is basically your personal assistant, because by simply participating in this level of personal service and paying a 175% markup on food, then you are tacitly implying that you have money to spare. It’s this kind of sentiment that I believe is also problematic. That eating out somehow gives you the right to make someone your bitch. We hear anecdotes on the SDMB all the time about insufferable customers who think they can treat waitstaff like shit because they are _customers_. I don’t see that happening anywhere else outside the US. Also the idea that customers are entitled to tell the waitstaff how to customize the menu just for them is kind of an alien idea to me. I just hope that Americans aren’t doing that when they travel to exotic places and go to eat outside of major hotels - because, if you do, you’re probably getting a fair amount of spittle in your food. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2010, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-had-service-provider-criticize-how-much-you-tipped/562720/177 "2010-12-13T20:22:43Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I’ve done that before and still received perfectly adequate service. I made a point of seeking out the manager and complimenting the staff member. I look forward to the story of how your next five projects for clients will all be performed for $2.50 USD an hour plus the warm congratulations of the client. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-had-service-provider-criticize-how-much-you-tipped/562720/178 "2010-12-14T01:33:52Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > You know something? If I was a contractor, and I knew that one person was going to pay me $200 for a job, and another person was going to pay me $150 for the same job, I’d bust my butt more for the guy who’d pay me more. That’s not a poor work ethic, that’s giving more effort for the person who pays more. There’s all kinds of little things that a server can do promptly, or a bit more slowly, or not at all. You know what? I WAS / AM a contractor (different jobs) and I would quote a price I was comfortable performing a job, and then bust my butt to see that the job was done. I am not so cheap and crass to be bought like that - I do my work because I said I would, not because I can be purchased ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-had-service-provider-criticize-how-much-you-tipped/562720/179 "2010-12-14T02:29:17Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > It’s not sensationalistic–it’s simply an uncomfortable truth. Refusing to pay for a service you’ve been rendered is stealing. The fact that there are no legal repurcussions doesn’t make it any more ethical. > > Waitstaff in the U.S. are paid a ridiculously tiny wage, well under the legal minimum, because a significant portion of their income is intended to be provided by tips. The tip is an intended portion of the cost of the meal; in the small number of establishments where tipping is not allowed, prices are commeasurately higher. You pay a lower price for your meal so that you can tip your waiter on top of it. When you don’t tip even after receiving at least adequate service, you are stealing that service from the person who provided it with the expectation of being compensated for it. So then it would be ok to tip the appropriate amount to bring the wage up to some minimum? Ok…waiter gets $2 per hour. Reasonable wage is $10 per hour. I was there for 30 minutes. Therefore my tip is $4? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-had-service-provider-criticize-how-much-you-tipped/562720/180 "2010-12-14T02:46:04Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I’ve done that before and still received perfectly adequate service. I made a point of seeking out the manager and complimenting the staff member. Interesting–I’ve continuously suggested doing this, and nobody ever responds to the suggestion. It’s great that you let folks know; I suspect that, unless the manager’s an asshole, he’s tipping the waitstaff out of her own pocket after you leave. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-had-service-provider-criticize-how-much-you-tipped/562720.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-had-service-provider-criticize-how-much-you-tipped/562720.md?page=10)