# Ever seen adult singing suddenly improve without training? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 8, 2020, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-seen-adult-singing-suddenly-improve-without-training/853429 "2020-05-08T20:42:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-seen-adult-singing-suddenly-improve-without-training/853429/1 "2020-05-08T20:42:26Z")
Our 22 year old son has played and sung in front of audiences for years. His playing has always been very good, but after his voice changed around age 11 his vocal range was dramatically decreased for around 10 years. The last couple of months that has changed, he now has a very, very good singing voice. He had gotten used to working within his limitations, but those limitations have for the most part disappeared. Has anyone out there had that happen themselves, or seen it happen? He does have some very good singing genes. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-seen-adult-singing-suddenly-improve-without-training/853429/2 "2020-05-08T20:51:02Z")
It improves with practice like everything else. ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-seen-adult-singing-suddenly-improve-without-training/853429/3 "2020-05-08T20:59:52Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > It improves with practice like everything else. True, but in this case it was kind of sudden. He’s lived in our house for the last year, and it happened all at once. I guess something clicked. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-seen-adult-singing-suddenly-improve-without-training/853429/4 "2020-05-08T21:52:32Z")
I feel like Kris Kristofferson may have done just this. His early recordings seem timid and weak. By the time he was with the ‘Highwaymen’ he was much more sure of his voice. And it sounded better. ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-seen-adult-singing-suddenly-improve-without-training/853429/5 "2020-05-08T21:59:37Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > I feel like Kris Kristofferson may have done just this. > His early recordings seem timid and weak. > By the time he was with the ‘Highwaymen’ he was much more sure of his voice. And it sounded better. Being sure of one’s voice certainly can make a difference. When I was in my mid teens I started hearing people say, “you’re really good.” I hadn’t really noticed; who really hears their own voice as it is? ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Sponge](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dark_sponge/32/121_2.png) [@Dark\_Sponge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dark_Sponge)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-seen-adult-singing-suddenly-improve-without-training/853429/6 "2020-05-08T22:03:34Z")
I experienced that. Horrible voice as a kid and young adult. After family life kicked in my wife and kids got into karaoke games for awhile. I tried it with them, beat them head-to-head easily, and actually sounded good. I suspected it might just be in my own head but it gave me confidence to sing in front of others. I’ve since received unprompted compliments on it from people I barely knew. I’m not really sure what changed or when. Part of it was probably learning my own range and sticking to it. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-seen-adult-singing-suddenly-improve-without-training/853429/7 "2020-05-08T22:04:05Z")
It does happen like that sometimes, but mostly for someone who is singing fairly regularly. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-seen-adult-singing-suddenly-improve-without-training/853429/8 "2020-05-08T22:23:19Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > It improves with practice like everything else. I’ve been singing in my car for thirty years and still sound like a sack of possums! ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2020, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-seen-adult-singing-suddenly-improve-without-training/853429/9 "2020-05-09T01:55:59Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > I’ve been singing in my car for thirty years and still sound like a sack of possums! That sounds like something I’d like to hear. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-seen-adult-singing-suddenly-improve-without-training/853429/10 "2020-05-13T14:04:47Z")
Has he recently gotten in better shape, eiter physically or psychologically? Both can radically change things. Also, if he was “singing within his limitations,” I could see where he was getting better over time and no one noticed, until one day he actually tried again to get out of his comfort zone. That has happened to me–I discovered my voice isn’t quite as busted as I thought it was. (I had been singing better, but yelled so much that I lost a lot of the high end and it never came back–until I recently tried again for basically random reasons.) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-seen-adult-singing-suddenly-improve-without-training/853429/11 "2020-05-13T14:16:31Z")
A person’s singing voice continues to change and develops well past puberty, so there’s that. But honestly, if he all of a sudden had a huge improvement and hasn’t had formal lessons already, my first guess would just be that he figured out the right way to breath while singing. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-seen-adult-singing-suddenly-improve-without-training/853429/12 "2020-05-13T15:04:41Z")
Mama Cass claimed her singing got better after she was hit on the head while on vacation , I think in the Caribbean. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-seen-adult-singing-suddenly-improve-without-training/853429/13 "2020-05-13T15:18:47Z")
P-man is he planning on trying out for one of the singing competition shows? ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-seen-adult-singing-suddenly-improve-without-training/853429/14 "2020-05-13T15:28:52Z")
I have a friend whose voice improved after she started taking medication for gastric reflux. Now, she mostly chants Torah, and doesn’t “sing” in situations where she has to match an instrument or other people, but she couldn’t even sustain a pitch well before, and was a good Torah reader mainly because she has a fantastic memory and actually understands the Torah. The best guess is that she relaxes better now that she’s on the reflux medication-- it’s a daily medication, not a symptomatic treatment. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-seen-adult-singing-suddenly-improve-without-training/853429/15 "2020-05-13T16:41:21Z")
I had a similar experience. As a boy I sang in the school choir and such, with a reasonable soprano (nothing special, but I could hold a tune). Then when my voice broke, it was pretty unreliable for speaking, never mind singing, for a few years, so I did no formal singing, just stuck to playing cello and piano. At university I joined the Gilbert & Sullivan Society as a cellist, then stepped up to musically directing one of their productions (which involved a fair bit of singing in order to coach the chorus), and finally decided to join the chorus myself, with a small solo role. So with no formal training or practice I went from hardly being able to sing, to performing in public. When I graduated I started to take regular singing lessons from an experienced, qualified singing teacher and in the last few years I’ve been able to earn a little money on the side from professional engagements (all classical, I don’t really do pop/rock). ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-seen-adult-singing-suddenly-improve-without-training/853429/16 "2020-05-13T17:43:02Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > I’ve been singing in my car for thirty years and still sound like a sack of possums! Imagine what you’d sound like without all that practice. I shudder to think… ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-seen-adult-singing-suddenly-improve-without-training/853429/17 "2020-05-13T18:21:24Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Mama Cass claimed her singing got better after she was hit on the head while on vacation , I think in the Caribbean. As was discussed in a thread in Cafe Society a few months ago, the story about the head injury and her increased vocal range was apparently widely circulated in the 1960s (by Elliot herself, among others), but it appears to have been a cover story to conceal the fact that the primary reason that John Phillips had been hesitant to bring her into the group was her weight. [As per Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cass_Elliot): > [@](#): > > A popular legend about Elliot is that her vocal range was improved by three notes after she was hit on the head by some copper tubing while walking through a construction site behind the bar where the New Journeymen were playing in the Virgin Islands. Elliot confirmed the story in a 1968 interview with Rolling Stone magazine, saying, > > “It’s true, I did get hit on the head by a pipe that fell down and my range was increased by three notes. They were tearing this club apart in the islands, revamping it, putting in a dance floor. Workmen dropped a thin metal plumbing pipe and it hit me on the head and knocked me to the ground. I had a concussion and went to the hospital. I had a bad headache for about two weeks and all of a sudden I was singing higher. It’s true. Honest to God.” > > However, friends later said that the pipe story was a less embarrassing explanation for why John Phillips had kept her out of the group for so long, the real reason being that he considered her too fat. ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-seen-adult-singing-suddenly-improve-without-training/853429/18 "2020-05-13T18:28:01Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > P-man is he planning on trying out for one of the singing competition shows? Not that I’m aware of. That kind of thing ain’t really his bag.