# Ever started a good book, and 100 pages in, it takes a turn for the worse? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 27, 2003, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-started-a-good-book-and-100-pages-in-it-takes-a-turn-for-the-worse/197947 "2003-08-27T11:33:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![fortytwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f9ae1b/32.png) [@fortytwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fortytwo)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-started-a-good-book-and-100-pages-in-it-takes-a-turn-for-the-worse/197947/41 "2003-08-29T19:57:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > \*\*Thanks a lot, **CK** – I had _finally_ managed to erase all memories of this racist piece of tripe from my mind, and now you’ve dragged them back to the surface. > > In any event, **Chung Kow** (I believe the name is also used for the entire series) doesn’t really fit the OP – it goes sour within the first dozen pages, easily. Noble and virtuous Anglo guys, evil wicked amoral Asians, hackneyed psuedo-oriental dialog throughout, all topped off with some rather disgusting imagery. > > It boggles my mind that the series actually found enough of an audience to warrant six volumes, though hearing about how stupid the series ends gives me some perverse satisfaction at the fans – “You sat through this garbage and got screwed with a crappy ending! HA HA!” 😉 \*\* The series was called Chungkuo and was actually 8 books. I only mention it because I have been assiduously collecting them for about 2 years, and wanted the lot before starting to read them! I have now got them all except book 4. Anyone want to buy an almost complete science fiction/fantasy series? :smack: V ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-started-a-good-book-and-100-pages-in-it-takes-a-turn-for-the-worse/197947/42 "2003-08-30T01:18:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Alessan \* > **Donaldson sagas _always_start out bleak and unpleasent, them get much better.** Truth. The difference with _Mordant’s Need_ was that the protagonists were total _wimps_, or they were as far as I could stand reading. I’m talking colorless, spineless, namby-pamby, wishy-washy _non-entities_. Wet toilet paper has more fibre and spine than these two, as far as I read. I’m glad to hear that they do eventually grow beyond their initial planarial existance, because that means that Donaldson didn’t _really_ try to test us to see if we’d read an entire story with human flatworms for the leading roles. The thing with _The Wounded Land_ was that Donaldson took ‘bleak and defeated’ to an all-time extreme, even for him. The saving grace was that Thomas Covenant was there, still acting like his ornery old self, and that’s what got me through. If I had picked up that book cold, I’d have sworn off the whole thing then-and-there. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-started-a-good-book-and-100-pages-in-it-takes-a-turn-for-the-worse/197947/43 "2003-08-30T04:04:02Z")
Ken Keasey’s Sometimes a Great Notion. Was real good and engrossing, and then turned stupid and the ending was horrible. I threw it away part way through, then finally finished it a few years later on a three day train trip in china with nothing else to read in English. Keasey’s latest novel, the dumbass one set in Alaska was the same. Started out fine, pretty interesting and then turned into a complete suck ass piece of dog crap ---
**Author:** ![Krisfer\_the\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Krisfer\_the\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krisfer_the_Cat)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-started-a-good-book-and-100-pages-in-it-takes-a-turn-for-the-worse/197947/44 "2003-08-30T16:24:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Nanook \* > \*\*ANCIENT EVENINGS by Norman Mailer. The first 100 pages of the novel narrates the story of a family as they journey down the Nile in nervous anticipation of an audience with the Pharaoh and is absolutely brilliant and gripping. Then it turns into a weird tale about Egyptian reincarnation and anal sex. That’s Norman, for ya. \*\* And just WHERE were you last year when I tried to start a thread on that book??? And dont give me the excuse you joined a month to late!😃 I have got to the Pharoah… but I keep getting overload by the effect of body odors as Norm really seems to have a thing for shit. Nice to know it isnt just me… ---
**Author:** ![Krisfer\_the\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Krisfer\_the\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krisfer_the_Cat)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-started-a-good-book-and-100-pages-in-it-takes-a-turn-for-the-worse/197947/45 "2003-08-30T16:41:14Z")
_Mirror of her Dreams_ is the only thing other than an anthology of Donaldson’s I have actually been able to finish. As I said in _The Shining_ appreciation thread that book sucked… I finished it just so I could see Jack go up in a blaze of well deserved nonglory. _Tommyknockers_ started out good then got well gross is too mild a word. Most of Heinlein’s books that were written post 1965 I find unreadable. He did great stuff in SHORT format but when he went to a long book it all devolved into a hippy love scene… poor OLD man trying to be hip and cool with the kids. I am sure there are a bunch more… hell in 30+ years of reading I have HAD to run into more than a handfull of turkeys:D ---
**Author:** ![Kyomara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8edcca/32.png) [@Kyomara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyomara)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-started-a-good-book-and-100-pages-in-it-takes-a-turn-for-the-worse/197947/46 "2003-08-30T17:28:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doghouse Reilly \* > \*\*_Underworld_, by Don De Lillo. \*\* I know what you mean, but the problem is that you have to get 400 pages in before you realize how good it is. I loved this book, but it was a bitch and a half to get into it. My nomination goes to _One Hundred Years of Solitude_. I got sucked into all that beautiful half-fantasy South American fictioneering, until I realized that there’s _no fucking story!!!_ I felt like an idiot when I read it all the way to the end anyway. ---
**Author:** ![sliv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@sliv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sliv)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2003, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-started-a-good-book-and-100-pages-in-it-takes-a-turn-for-the-worse/197947/47 "2003-08-31T16:45:12Z")
The Gor series. I had just finished the Mars Chronicles by Burroughs, and the first book of the Gor series seemed to be more or less in the same vein… so I went out and bought most of the series. What was I thinking? Awful awful awful. ---
**Author:** ![Duncan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecc23a/32.png) [@Duncan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duncan)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2003, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-started-a-good-book-and-100-pages-in-it-takes-a-turn-for-the-worse/197947/48 "2003-08-31T18:18:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Banger \* > \*\*_Stranger in a Strange Land_ by Robert Heinlein. The first half was very interesting, as it focused on how a human raised by aliens would deal with coming to Earth and dealing with an unfamiliar human culture. However, the second half revealed that such a human would become the leader of a hippie love cult. > > I’m just glad I took a chance on Heinlein again and read the much better _Starship Troopers_. \*\* God yes! That book didn’t just go downhill, it toppled over a cliff the moment Valentine leaves Heinlein’s (or whatever he called his pet character) house and joins the carnival. If I hadn’t already read “The Man Who Sold the Moon” I’d given up reading Heinlein for life. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2003, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-started-a-good-book-and-100-pages-in-it-takes-a-turn-for-the-worse/197947/49 "2003-08-31T22:15:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Super Gnat \* > \*\*Some book by Stephen King-- _Rosebud_ or something – that I read in high school. Relatively interesting beginning. A woman who’s been battered by her policeman husband for years walks out the door one day and goes to a battered women’s shelter, starts putting her life together, etc. In the meantime, her evil husband is hunting her down. Then, halfway through, it’s like King gives up and decides to let magic solve all his problems :rolleyes:. \*\* I totally agree (as **Apollyon** says, it is called Rose Madder). I had been pondering opening a thread asking if Stephen King’s books were often like this. The only King book I’d read previously was Misery, which was good. In Rose Madder, I thought King was writing a very creditable thriller until the wheels fell off and he went into the supernatural. I’m now reluctant to buy any more King novels in case this is his normal style. I agree with the Heinlein comments. His early books were great, middle ones disappointing, and later ones crap from beginning to end. Although good for longer than the OP’s 100 pages, I felt similarly about Catch 22. The book was great to start, but the novelty wore off and it seemed as if he didn’t know how to end it - the plot itself seemed to be in the same catch-22. Thomas Wolfe novels (OK, only two: Bonfire of the Vanities and A Man in Full) are good nearly to the end, but unfortunately he doesn’t know how to finish a story. His characterization is terrific, and I will read future novels just for that, but I won’t be expecting a great story. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2003, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-started-a-good-book-and-100-pages-in-it-takes-a-turn-for-the-worse/197947/50 "2003-08-31T22:25:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sliv \* > \*\*The Gor series. > > \ > > Awful awful awful. \*\* Badly done misogynistic BDSM… Frighteningly enough, there is a whole BDSM sub-culture grown up around the _Gor_ books, where they attempt to live according to the relationship ideas presented therein. Now, BDSM isn’t a bad thing at all, but _Gor_ goes to some _really_ bizarre places & extremes. _shrug_ I guess there’s no accounting for preferences. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-started-a-good-book-and-100-pages-in-it-takes-a-turn-for-the-worse/197947/51 "2003-09-01T03:48:58Z")
Richard Matheson has an impressive career behind him, having written many of the best episodes of _The Twilight Zone_, and a lot of really sharp screenplays and novels, many of them thoughtful thrillers. So when I saw a new novel by him called _Hunted Past Reason_, I picked it up. The premise is promising – a middle-aged writer with no hiking experience wants to take a serious backpacking trip as research for a book. His guide is an acquaintance experienced in camping, and they set out through the northern California wilderness. The first part of the trip is fairly vividly described, with the rather introverted, unathletic writer finding himself completely dependent on his acquaintance. Then… He begins to realize that he doesn’t really know the guy that well. His acquaintance starts acting downright strange, showing more and more of his dark side, and finally goes off completely, beats up, ties up and anally rapes the protagonist, then gives him a head start, so he can hunt him down. Sort of a “Most Dangerous Game” situation. Before long, I was almost rooting for the bad guy, because the protagonist is so weepy and helpless and self-pitying. I kept waiting for the book to get better, but by the last thirty pages, it’s using one of the worst, most stupid movie cliches – the one in which the protagonist, given the chance to eliminate the clearly deranged killer who’s been stalking him, does some damage but doesn’t hang around to make sure he’s finished the job, and before you know it, up pops the almost indestructible bad guy. Happened about three times. So, avoid this book. Very disappointing from a writer with Matheson’s track record. ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-started-a-good-book-and-100-pages-in-it-takes-a-turn-for-the-worse/197947/52 "2003-09-01T06:06:33Z")
You know I bought a book of Matheson’s short stories. Stormed through _I Am Legend_ and thought it was just amazing. Then I sampled a few more and…eh! ---
**Author:** ![nisosbar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@nisosbar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nisosbar)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-started-a-good-book-and-100-pages-in-it-takes-a-turn-for-the-worse/197947/53 "2003-09-01T12:29:00Z")
Balwin - I read that book recently. I agree with you totally. Although, I did find that the book moved quickly and I was never bored. But the quality of the writing was a BIG disappointment from what I expect of Matheson. ---
**Author:** ![Super\_Gnat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Super\_Gnat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Super_Gnat)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-started-a-good-book-and-100-pages-in-it-takes-a-turn-for-the-worse/197947/54 "2003-09-01T18:39:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tranquilis \* > \*\*Badly done misogynistic BDSM… Frighteningly enough, there is a whole BDSM sub-culture grown up around the _Gor_ books, where they attempt to live according to the relationship ideas presented therein. Now, BDSM isn’t a bad thing at all, but _Gor_ goes to some _really_ bizarre places & extremes. > > _shrug_ > > I guess there’s no accounting for preferences. \*\* I thought I remembered them… SomethingAwful did an entire article about them. I mean, BDSM doesn’t normally weird me out, but these folks left a really bad taste in my mouth. ---
**Author:** ![fizzygoodmakefeelnice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8491ac/32.png) [@fizzygoodmakefeelnice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fizzygoodmakefeelnice)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-started-a-good-book-and-100-pages-in-it-takes-a-turn-for-the-worse/197947/55 "2003-09-01T21:04:21Z")
**Super Gnat** mentioned it already: _Rose Madder_ by Stephen King. It’s by no means a bad book, but about two thirds of the way in King adds an unecessary supernatural angle to what was already a very gripping story about an abusive husband hunting down his wife. I enjoyed it enough to read it twice but on both readings I’ve felt that it would have been a far more interesting story without the magical intervention which is never fully explained. I also found _Titus Alone_ very difficult to read, and I stopped reading about a quarter of the way in which is strange because I loved, and have repeatedly reread, Peake’s first two Gormenghast books. If anyone has read it and can vouch that it’s worth soldiering on with, let me know. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-started-a-good-book-and-100-pages-in-it-takes-a-turn-for-the-worse/197947/56 "2003-09-02T11:58:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Super Gnat \* > \*\*I thought I remembered them… SomethingAwful did an entire article about them. I mean, BDSM doesn’t normally weird me out, but these folks left a really bad taste in my mouth. \*\* To be fair though, you can turn up half a hundred different flavours of “lifestyle Goreans” with a little searching, and some that I’ve encountered come across as quite reasonable and thoughtful human beings. The image of some guy strapping on a cyber-sword and wielding a whip isn’t altogether a fair one. Also, a truly astonishing number of women seem to like the idea very much indeed. Surprised? I sure was. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-started-a-good-book-and-100-pages-in-it-takes-a-turn-for-the-worse/197947/57 "2003-09-02T12:35:29Z")
Vetch- Ignore the uninformed opinions that disliked Chung-Kuo. Firstly, the “anglos” (racist word used by so-called racist-haters) are hardly choirboys in this series. In fact no one is innocent in these books. Secondly, it is hardly racist to project dictatorial Chinese dynastic rule into the future, just because that society isn’t portrayed in a nice, PC fashion. If you don’t like something, that’s one thing, everyone is entitled to an opinion. (IMHO, opinions of literature based on incomplete facts or no facts, or on hearsay, should be kept to one’s self). Read a whole book before you comment, or accept the fact that other’s might like it. Stop flinging around such a volatile word like racist. I distrust anyone’s opinion when it’s based on reading a handful of pages. The series was printed in many languages and still does well in many countries. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-started-a-good-book-and-100-pages-in-it-takes-a-turn-for-the-worse/197947/58 "2003-09-02T13:28:42Z")
> [@](#): > > I also found Titus Alone very difficult to read, and I stopped reading about a quarter of the way in which is strange because I loved, and have repeatedly reread, Peake’s first two Gormenghast books. If anyone has read it and can vouch that it’s worth soldiering on with, let me know. No, don’t bother. Peake’s mental health was deteriorating wile writing _Titus Alone_, and it shows. I have never felt the urge to re-read it, despite multiple readings of both the first two books. The story has a nice symmetry, from Titus’ birth to his leaving of Gormenghast, which is undermined by the third book. ---
**Author:** ![Super\_Gnat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Super\_Gnat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Super_Gnat)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-started-a-good-book-and-100-pages-in-it-takes-a-turn-for-the-worse/197947/59 "2003-09-02T14:22:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Malacandra \* > \*\*To be fair though, you can turn up half a hundred different flavours of “lifestyle Goreans” with a little searching, and some that I’ve encountered come across as quite reasonable and thoughtful human beings. The image of some guy strapping on a cyber-sword and wielding a whip isn’t altogether a fair one. Also, a truly astonishing number of women seem to like the idea very much indeed. Surprised? I sure was. \*\* Yeah, that’s a good point. SomethingAwful does tend to find the… extremists, and I can wrap my mind around the existance of non-creepy versions of Gor roleplaying. ---
**Author:** ![bradthomas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9f8e36/32.png) [@bradthomas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bradthomas)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-started-a-good-book-and-100-pages-in-it-takes-a-turn-for-the-worse/197947/60 "2003-09-02T19:50:14Z")
One that probably many will disagree with, but I thought that Gorky Park started out great. An interesting murder mystery investigated within the constraints of the Soviet system. Then, for some reason, Smith feels a need to turn it into a huge case of global impact. I just wanted a nice little murder mystery. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-started-a-good-book-and-100-pages-in-it-takes-a-turn-for-the-worse/197947.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ever-started-a-good-book-and-100-pages-in-it-takes-a-turn-for-the-worse/197947.md?page=4)