# Everest: Just Don't Do It **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 22, 2016, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397 "2016-05-22T21:31:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/221 "2019-05-26T21:21:59Z")
Is Nepal that hard up for money to issue all these permits? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/222 "2019-05-26T21:51:02Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > Robin Fisher [was concerned about the overcrowding and posted about it on Instagram.](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/26/asia/mount-everest-warning-scli-intl-gbr/index.html&ved=2ahUKEwidtJHKq7niAhXkRt8KHSnrChMQqOcBMAB6BAgCEAQ&usg=AOvVaw3nEqCIZr2pmBy1T7iK7U9D)… The story wording that he “warned of overcrowding” makes it sound like it was something that he had no responsibility for or control over that killed him. He chose to ignore his own warning, and in doing so _contributed_ to the the overcrowding… ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/223 "2019-05-26T23:16:44Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > The story wording that he “warned of overcrowding” makes it sound like it was something that he had no responsibility for or control over that killed him. He chose to ignore his own warning, and in doing so _contributed_ to the the overcrowding… I agree. Anyone attempting Everest certainly must know what they are getting into. It’s no secret. That said, it will be interesting to see if the well-publicized pictures and deaths this year may result in a few less climbers next year. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/224 "2019-05-26T23:20:33Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Is Nepal that hard up for money to issue all these permits? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/225 "2019-05-27T22:34:49Z")
[And it goes up to 11](https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/27/asia/mount-everest-deaths-intl/index.html) (which is one more.) ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/226 "2019-05-28T02:12:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Boulder attorney, Christopher Kulish, added to one of the deadliest climbing seasons in Mt. Everest history, becoming the 11th person to die on the mountain in 10 days. A news release from his brother said Kulish died early Monday morning on his way back down the mountain after reaching the summit earlier in the weekend. > > Christopher’s brother, Mark, said the 62-year-old climber arrived at the mountain’s base camp in Nepal seven weeks before his ascent to get acclimated to the climate. He died of cardiac arrest at the camp just below the summit. > **[Colorado Attorney Becomes The 11th Person To Die On Mt. Everest In 10 Days](https://deadspin.com/colorado-attorney-becomes-the-11th-person-to-die-on-mt-1835052580)** > > Boulder attorney, Christopher Kulish, added to one of the deadliest climbing seasons in Mt. Everest history, becoming the 11th person to die on the mountain in 10 days. A news release from his brother said Kulish died early Monday morning on his way... ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/227 "2019-05-28T05:50:47Z")
I had been getting my latest news about Everest deaths from the web page of the [Himalayan Times](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://thehimalayantimes.com/&ved=2ahUKEwjQ0-Gawr3iAhVxUN8KHeStADUQFjAAegQIBxAD&usg=AOvVaw0PwYTSHWbDhCzzQxTkdHe3), but now suddenly there is nothing on the main page of the paper about the Everest fatalities at all, even though we had that eleventh death today. Censorship or just other news taking hold? ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/228 "2019-05-28T06:17:59Z")
[As bad as the death numbers are…](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.citynews1130.com/2019/05/27/victoria-man-caught-on-mt-everest-shares-stories-of-survival-and-heroism/&ved=2ahUKEwjQyLGByL3iAhWFct8KHcKeC-cQ0PADMAJ6BAgGEA4&usg=AOvVaw0o_AK7HDUJYHwCbzt8m1Pe) [it seems it could have been even worse.](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/climbers-describe-carnage-on-mount-everest-as-australian-rescued-amid-rising-death-toll/news-story/cac22d282b241770f28c03905a0a1e74&ved=2ahUKEwiHzODeyL3iAhUEVt8KHWexBg0QtwIwDnoECAIQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0i9baiKYCHjmbAifXSHRDe) ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/229 "2019-05-28T12:21:34Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > [it seems it could have been even worse.](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/climbers-describe-carnage-on-mount-everest-as-australian-rescued-amid-rising-death-toll/news-story/cac22d282b241770f28c03905a0a1e74&ved=2ahUKEwiHzODeyL3iAhUEVt8KHWexBg0QtwIwDnoECAIQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0i9baiKYCHjmbAifXSHRDe) This story says > [@](#): > > The four bodies were brought down by helicopter last week according to media reports. > > Dandu Raj Ghimire of Nepal’s tourism department told AFP they are being identified. That got me thinking. Maybe as part of the climbing permit and fees all climbers should have to leave a DNA sample. If only to identify the body if they die on the mountain and get left there for years. I wonder if that would have a sobering effect on some climbers? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/230 "2019-05-28T13:09:36Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > I wonder if that would have a sobering effect on some climbers? I don’t think so, the vast majority of the climbers are aware of the risks. I don’t think a cheek swab would change their impression of the risk. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/231 "2019-05-28T13:34:45Z")
I found the following book fascinating and informative. **High Crimes -The Fate of Everest in an Age of Greed** by _Michael Kodas_ > **[High Crimes: The Fate of Everest in an Age of Greed , Kodas, Michael -...](https://www.amazon.com/High-Crimes-Fate-Everest-Greed-ebook/dp/B00134XEQO)** > > High Crimes: The Fate of Everest in an Age of Greed - Kindle edition by Kodas, Michael. Download it once and read it on your Kindle device, PC, phones or tablets. Use features like bookmarks, note taking and highlighting while reading High Crimes:... It’s not just the overcrowding. It’s unscrupulous tour operators and larcenous climbers. The book also goes into great details about the process of climbing Everest - it’s not like people come for a week and go straight up from camp to camp ( well, maybe some do but they shouldn’t). The climbers generally stay for several weeks and spend a lot of time going back and forth between the lower camps before making their “bid” for the summit, And there are issues between the reputable tour companies, who spend a lot of time and money and undertake a lot of risk preparing the route, outfitting it with ropes and ladders - and the disreputable guides, who refuse to contribute but who use and frequently steal or damage their equipment. I recommend this book, my only criticism was a feeling that the expeditions he covered seemed a bit naive going in. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/232 "2019-05-28T15:06:25Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > … ropes and ladders … I’m seeing a board game using Dungeons and Dragons type dice to determine how long you stay in line, whether you fall or get altitude sickness, etc. You need to survive the ascent and descent to win, and there’s a good chance you’ll survive neither. Playing pieces (climbing boots?) in different colors so others can recognize that it’s your corpse they are passing. Past 6000m you roll the 10-sided die every move to determine your health; past 8000m you roll the 20-sided die to determine if you are alive. Grandpa **heiniezone** got a couple of his games published, so it’s in my blood to say Copyright 2019 by the person using the alias **dropzone** , patent pending by same, all rights reserved… ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/233 "2019-05-28T16:05:50Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > [Colorado Attorney Becomes The 11th Person To Die On Mt. Everest In 10 Days](https://deadspin.com/colorado-attorney-becomes-the-11th-person-to-die-on-mt-1835052580) Dude was in his early 60’s. He was an avid climber in Colorado and around the world. His family’s statement, was that at least he died doing what he loved best. I’m sorry, but I must be wired differently, I have no desire to die…much less dying while doing what I love best. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/234 "2019-05-28T16:43:54Z")
Dying of a heart attack brought on by altitude sickness is nobody’s idea of doing what they love best. Neither is standing in line for hours, nor is stepping around corpses on ones way to stand on an area the size of two ping pong tables with a dozen and a half other guys, all jostling to take selfies. To reduce senseless slaughter next season we should all laugh at anyone expressing a desire to “conquer” Everest and, by the looks of them, you should reconsider your doctor or lawyer or vet on the basis of his or her lack of judgement. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/235 "2019-05-28T17:03:59Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > Sure, Nepal is poor and desperate to make money, but I still think raising the fee to four times its current amount wouldn’t reduce the number of applicants by more than 3/4, so Nepal wouldn’t suffer any loss. The government of Nepal would collect as much in fees with that change, but all the people of Nepal who make a living providing services to climbers would suffer from lack of custom. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/236 "2019-05-28T19:24:35Z")
A note about the permits. [https://www.mounteverest.net/expguide/permit.htm](https://www.mounteverest.net/expguide/permit.htm) The permit ( and the 11K fee ) is not per person, it’s per expedition group. If this article is correct, a MINIMUM of 8 climbers ( leader + 7 ) is needed for a permit. This article does not state the maximum. The expedition leader is required to submit credentials and referrals to prove climbing experience. There are other costs and deposits required (including one deposit that is refunded when you carry your garbage down.) But only the expedition leaders are required to have experience. Some are with organizations that take up tourist climbers, some are real organized expeditions made up of experienced climbers, and sometimes they are nothing but groups of solo climbers who banded together to share costs. But 384 permits = thousands of climbers. ---
**Author:** ![Dahu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dahu/32/3416_2.png) [@Dahu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dahu)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/237 "2019-05-28T19:36:16Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Dude was in his early 60’s. He was an avid climber in Colorado and around the world. His family’s statement, was that at least he died doing what he loved best. Standing in a queue? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/238 "2019-05-28T19:37:55Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > I’m seeing a board game… …Or maybe a card game based on Mille Bornes would be a good start. ---
**Author:** ![Dahu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dahu/32/3416_2.png) [@Dahu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dahu)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/239 "2019-05-28T19:41:26Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > A note about the permits. > > [https://www.mounteverest.net/expguide/permit.htm](https://www.mounteverest.net/expguide/permit.htm) > > The permit ( and the 11K fee ) is not per person, it’s per expedition group. If this article is correct, a MINIMUM of 8 climbers ( leader + 7 ) is needed for a permit. This article does not state the maximum. > The expedition leader is required to submit credentials and referrals to prove climbing experience. There are other costs and deposits required (including one deposit that is refunded when you carry your garbage down.) Not sure about that other sources say it’s per climber > **[How Much Does it Cost to Climb Mount Everest? – 2019 Edition | The Blog on...](http://www.alanarnette.com/blog/2018/12/17/how-much-does-it-cost-to-climb-mount-everest-2019-edition/#5)** > > How Much Does it Cost to Climb Mount Everest? - 2019 Edition. I take a very detailed look at the alternatives to climb Everest from cheap to ridiculously expensive. > [@](#): > > The permit cost is fixed at $11,000 per climber from Nepal ---
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/240 "2019-05-28T20:33:59Z")
> [@Dahu](#): > > Standing in a queue? Only if he were British. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397.md?page=13)