# Everest: Just Don't Do It **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 22, 2016, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397 "2016-05-22T21:31:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 43
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2023, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/841 "2023-09-06T00:57:36Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > **Touching the Void**? Excellent documentary with a more positive outcome. _Eventually_. šŸ˜‰ Itā€™s quite horrific for most of it. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2023, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/842 "2023-09-06T01:38:55Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > That seems like a bit more than mind over matter to me, but YMMV. I have friends who succeeded at climbing Everest, and those who failed. Being fit and motivated isnā€™t enough. The ability to operate at altitude is not a given for any individual, some folks simply will be unable to deal with the challenge. And some degree of luck is vital as well. You canā€™t really imagine or prepare for the deep suffering that high-altitude mountaineering offers. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2023, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/843 "2023-09-06T01:40:26Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > Itā€™s quite horrific for most of it Well, itā€™s like **127 Hours**. You get the bad and the good. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2023, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/844 "2023-09-06T14:21:56Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > I have friends who succeeded at climbing Everest, and those who failed. Being fit and motivated isnā€™t enough. The ability to operate at altitude is not a given for any individual, some folks simply will be unable to deal with the challenge. And some degree of luck is vital as well. You canā€™t really imagine or prepare for the deep suffering that high-altitude mountaineering offers. yes, I recall a person who semi-professionally ran marathons and he got altitude sick and never managed to summit (3 tries over 3 different years) ā€¦ so, there is def. a ā€œnatureā€ component in it that you cannor ā€œnurtureā€ away. some peoples bodies deal better with that environment than others ā€¦ and there is really nothing you can do about it ā€¦ its a characteristic just like being tall or short. for those interested, there is plenty of (very commercial) docā€™s on YT e.g. [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/QZLCIpovtkU/hqdefault.jpg "Everest - Beyond the Limit - Season 1 Episode 1") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZLCIpovtkU) enough for a binge-weekend ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2023, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/845 "2023-09-06T17:52:50Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > Apologies if I missed it, but have you seen **Touching the Void**? Excellent documentary with a more positive outcome. I liked the movie, but I liked the book even better. > [@Al128](#): > > yes, I recall a person who semi-professionally ran marathons and he got altitude sick and never managed to summit (3 tries over 3 different years) I didnā€™t run marathons, and I didnā€™t attempt to climb Everest, but I did run 10Ks, and I hiked Mt Whitney. And I got sick with the altitude. I had enough to get to the summit and come back down. With every foot (it seemed) of descent, I felt better. Weird sensation. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2023, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/846 "2023-09-06T22:44:32Z")
I was pretty altitude sick in Quito, thousands of feet below even Everest Base Campā€™s elevation. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2023, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/847 "2023-09-06T23:14:36Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > You canā€™t really imagine or prepare for the deep suffering that high-altitude mountaineering offers. It sounds pretty awful. I enjoy reading about people doing things in nature that I would/could never do. I can understand suffering greatly for a goal though. Iā€™ve suffered for a lot of goals. > [@Telemark](#): > > Being fit and motivated isnā€™t enough. I sure believe it isnā€™t sufficient to be fit, but would you agree that itā€™s necessary to be exceptionally fit, at a minimum? I feel like some people talk about Everest like anyone reasonably fit could do it, like there are just schlubs strolling along up there due to all the fixed ropes. But it seems to me it would probably be pretty physically grueling even with all that. My assumption, and perhaps it isnā€™t correct, is that most regular exercisers arenā€™t anywhere in the neighborhood of how fit you need to be to climb Everest. Do you think thatā€™s so? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2023, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/848 "2023-09-06T23:25:50Z")
My impression is that being fit certainly helps, but it isnā€™t the determining factor. For example, I can out hike my friend who was successful at Everest. What she has is the ability to push on through pain, misery, and suffering, day after day for extended periods. I never thought of her as exceptionally fit, but she is super strong mentally. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2023, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/849 "2023-09-07T00:02:15Z")
just to make sure: this is NOT a thing of ā€œpushing through painā€ ā€¦ we are talking of your brain swelling (within a given volume of craneal-space) and your lungs filling with fluid ā€¦ some people get that and others dont ā€¦ you cannot ā€œfitness awayā€ a swelling brain that starts compressing your whole central nerve system. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2023, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/850 "2023-09-07T01:05:07Z")
At the point of HAPE and especially HACE you need immediate medical attention. I donā€™t think I would do well at high altitudes. I did fine hiking up Half Dome (8,800ā€™), but when I hiked Lassen Peak (10,400ā€™) I got a raging headache. But maybe thatā€™s because I did not get acclimatized. Iā€™d driven to it from sea level and then immediately did that hike. It was probably too fast an altitude change. > [@needscoffee](#): > > Apologies if I missed it, but have you seen **Touching the Void**? Excellent documentary with a more positive outcome. Thanks for this. I just watched it, it is excellent. Joe Simpsonā€™s surviving a 200ā€™ fall with a broken leg, then exiting the crevasse and crawling for some 4-5 miles back to their base camp was an amazing ordeal. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2023, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/851 "2023-09-07T01:30:32Z")
> [@Al128](#): > > just to make sure: this is NOT a thing of ā€œpushing through painā€ ā€¦ Yeah - but if you ARE one of the folk who are able to function at altitude, how fit need you be, as opposed to mental toughness? And to what extent can anyone increase their ability to function at altitude? I understand a LOT of athletes train at altitude, but I thought that was primarily to increase their function at lower altitudes. Iā€™ve never gone much above 10kā€™, but my wife has MAJOR problems in the Rockies - or even in Denver, whereas I have none. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2023, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/852 "2023-09-07T01:39:53Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > I donā€™t think I would do well at high altitudes. I did OK at 18,000ā€™ - moving slowly and slight headache but fully functional. But there were a few Westerners with us that seemed completely unaffected by the altitude. They moved at normal speed, could carry other peopleā€™s packs, and carried on normal conversations the whole time. The local Nepali seemed completely unaffected at those altitudes. ---
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2023, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/853 "2023-09-07T12:02:04Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I read about that in _Into Thin Air_ and I really didnā€™t detect a lot of anger from Krakauer over Boukreev, or any character assassination as is claimedā€¦though perhaps some bewilderment. Krakauer was very much an amateur compared to that guy, so I can see how Boukreev would bristle at how he was characterized in the book, but I didnā€™t feel that Krakauer was trying to hide anything, just report what he observed. And he dutifully reported Boukreevā€™s heroic actions while he was passed out on a tent. Unfortunately Krakaurā€™s obvious trauma and limited experience made it difficult for him to be objective. I understand why he had to write the book, but I would have been one of those people telling him to wait. Krakauerā€™s beef was over whether Anatoli Boukreev was a guide or an advisor. Boukreev was apparently up front that he would be summitting without supplemental oxygen and would be limited in assisting slow clients on the final ascent. However, he was marketed as being an expedition leader and acted as a guide in the weeks prior to the ascent. Krakauer believed that the Mountain Madness clients were relying on Boukreev. Boukreev did support the teamā€™s clients on the way to the summit. However, he descended ahead of them, and some of those clients were stranded outside of camp during the tragic blizzard that occurred on the afternoon of the summit day. Krakauer felt that Boukreev was acting as a guide and had a duty of care to his clients that should have exceeded his personal ambitions, Boukreev disagreed, stating that his intentions to summit Mt Everest without supplemental oxygen were know upfront. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2023, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/854 "2023-09-07T12:52:30Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > ā€¦ Boukreev disagreed, stating that his intentions to summit Mt Everest without supplemental oxygen were know upfront. And that would have been a conversation between Fischer and Boukreev. My point is that the level of care among the clients of Mountain Madness and that of Adventure Consultants, from the guides (including Boukreev and Neal Beidleman, and also Mike Groom and Andy Harris for Rob Hall) would be different. If that difference in the level of care/support was not communicated to at least Scott Fischerā€™s clients, that could lead to problems. From what Iā€™ve read, it was not. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2023, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/855 "2023-09-07T12:54:12Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > > [@Bullitt](#): > > > > I donā€™t think I would do well at high altitudes. > > I did OK at 18,000ā€™ - moving slowly and slight headache but fully functional. But there were a few Westerners with us that seemed completely unaffected by the altitude. They moved at normal speed, could carry other peopleā€™s packs, and carried on normal conversations the whole time. > > The local Nepali seemed completely unaffected at those altitudes. Did you trek to south base camp? Or was that 18,000 somewhere else? The elevation at SBC is 17,598ā€˜. Calling that 18,000ā€™ is close enough, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2023, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/856 "2023-09-07T12:56:27Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Or was that 18,000 somewhere else? [Thorong La](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorong_La) on the Annapurna Circuit, 17,769ā€™. I rounded up. šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2023, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/857 "2023-09-07T13:03:23Z")
Just for another data point, when I was 26 and spending a month in the Wind River Mountains on a National Outdoor Leadership School course, we summited an 11,505 ft peak. Didnā€™t affect me at all, and I was by far the oldest and least-fit person on the course. Thereā€™s a big difference between 11,505 and 26,000 feet, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2023, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/858 "2023-09-07T13:14:49Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > > [@Bullitt](#): > > > > Or was that 18,000 somewhere else? > > [Thorong La](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorong_La) on the Annapurna Circuit, 17,769ā€™. I rounded up. šŸ™‚ Cool. Mustā€™ve been an awesome trek. I had to look this up but for orientation purposes, Annapurna is about 190 miles to the west northwest of Everest. [![](https://i.imgur.com/dJ1biRB.jpg) ](https://i.imgur.com/dJ1biRB.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![3AxisCtrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/ecd19e/32.png) [@3AxisCtrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3AxisCtrl)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2023, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/859 "2023-09-07T13:32:45Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > When I was learning wilderness first aid at the National Outdoor Leadership School, the first question we were taught to ask before attempting to help was, ā€œIs the scene safe? Can I approach and render aid without putting myself in danger?ā€ If the answer was ā€œNoā€, then we were instructed not to proceed until and unless it was. Sounds sensible. But situations in which a rescue entails absolutely no danger to would-be helpers are uncommon. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2023, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/860 "2023-09-07T13:41:21Z")
First rule of wilderness rescue is donā€™t create new victims. Thatā€™s somewhat different emphasis from non-wilderness situations where more risk is acceptable since resources to deal with more victims are generally close at hand. No one is saying that you canā€™t make a move until all danger is gone. But you can evaluate the situation, reduce the risk, and make choices that present less danger to the would-be rescuers. In some difficult situations you canā€™t risk going in. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397.md?page=42) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397.md?page=44)