# Everest: Just Don't Do It **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 22, 2016, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397 "2016-05-22T21:31:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/121 "2017-05-24T16:23:25Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > I doubt I ever will, but that is the extent of adventure I’m up for, and I think that should be good enough for pretty much everyone else. I can look but not touch. Mountaineers climb mountains; it’s what they do and who they are. It’s not good enough for them to look but not touch. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/122 "2017-05-24T16:29:38Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Mountaineers climb mountains; it’s what they do and who they are. It’s not good enough for them to look but not touch. And that’s not an important enough reason by itself to let them go on like they are now. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/123 "2017-05-24T16:35:21Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Mountaineers climb mountains; it’s what they do and who they are. It’s not good enough for them to look but not touch. Fair enough. True mountaineers I don’t necessarily have a problem with. If it’s what you do, if you’re experienced and know what you’re doing, then go for it. It’s the casual “bucket list” mountaineers who have never strapped on a crampon before who go to climb Everest because they felt like it one morning, and the commercialized industry that’s arisen to ferry these people up and down the mountain like it’s carnival ride that are destroying the place for everyone. I say take down the permanently affixed aids and every climber make his or her own way up, and if you can’t, your ass shouldn’t get past Base Camp. . ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/124 "2017-05-24T16:39:24Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > And that’s not an important enough reason by itself to let them go on like they are now. I know this is a “No true Scotsman” argument, but most true mountaineers agree with you. The commercialization aspect (and the economic benefits or loss thereof to the local Sherpa community) is more complex than just saying “shut it down”. It’s literally a way of life for a whole community. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/125 "2017-05-24T16:46:09Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > [snip] > It’s not just a matter of having oxygen, it’s also a matter of atmospheric pressure. We evolved to live under more or less sea level density of air. When the air gets thin enough it not only contains less oxygen per volume but our lungs are less efficient at gas exchange, too. There is an altitude at which breathing even 100% oxygen is useless because there is insufficient air pressure for the exchange of gases in the human lung and bloodstream. Everest isn’t quite that high, but it’s high enough that in the “death zone” your lungs and respiratory systems no longer function well enough to adequately oxygenate your body. Hence, “death zone” because eventually you’ll die if you stay there long enough, even on 100% oxygen. Your metabolism is slowly suffocating. > > Because we’re all slightly different some people will be affected more rapidly than others, hence why some people have managed to summit Everest without supplemental oxygen and some die even with oxygen. Existence in that environment is so marginal that those individual variations, normally never noticed in day to day existence, are the difference between life and death. So, purely theoretically, if there was such a thing as an Everest-able space-suit, then the breathing and oxygen aspect of the death zone would not be an issue? ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/126 "2017-05-24T17:10:06Z")
> [@velomont](#): > > So, purely theoretically, if there was such a thing as an Everest-able space-suit, then the breathing and oxygen aspect of the death zone would not be an issue? This was [discussed a few years back](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=645809) if you’re interested. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/127 "2017-05-24T18:32:06Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Mallory’s body was there 75 years and was in pretty good shape. As long as a body doesn’t get swept off the mountain, it remains well preserved. But if it does get blown off or otherwise falls, since the body is frozen solid it’ll often shatter like an ice cube. That can’t be pretty. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/128 "2017-05-24T18:36:30Z")
So far, how many have died this season? I heard ten. From both routes. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/129 "2017-05-24T18:52:01Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > So far, how many have died this season? I heard ten. From both routes. And to be clear, I want toinclude Sherpas in that count. Sometimes, depending on who’s reporting, they aren’t included in the count. So have ten people died so far this season? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/130 "2017-05-24T19:05:16Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > So far, how many have died this season? I heard ten. From both routes. I’ve read 10 as well. This page is usually updated fairly quickly with new deaths, but is still a few days behind - [List of people who died climbing Mount Everest - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_who_died_climbing_Mount_Everest#Fatalities) ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/131 "2017-05-24T19:09:32Z")
And here, for comparison, [is a list of deaths on the other eight-thousanders](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deaths_on_eight-thousanders&ved=0ahUKEwj-mOq2nInUAhVMQCYKHRhnA_sQFghAMAM&usg=AFQjCNFxuDT2FfxQpot0FlD5X8as9inGlQ&sig2=VwnCcawvgoL4fw0lKbWCag). ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/132 "2017-05-24T20:05:08Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > And that’s not an important enough reason by itself to let them go on like they are now. Why do you care? If someone wants to spend a bunch of money in an activity that is reasonably likely to result in his/her death, why not let them? Why deprive the local economies of the income? I tend to disfavor the idea of the trash left behind, but given the location, I’m not sure some O2 bottles and dead bodies qualify as an environmental nightmare. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/133 "2017-05-24T20:12:32Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > I tend to disfavor the idea of the trash left behind, but given the location, I’m not sure some O2 bottles and dead bodies qualify as an environmental nightmare. It’s not an environmental nightmare, but it is quite ugly. Given that, at least on the main route of the South Col and southeast ridge, the main camps I-IV are fairly well established, as is Base Camp, the litter really piles up in those areas. Based on what I’ve read, anyway – I have never been anywhere near Everest. It’s ugly, it’s a blight, and frankly it is quite disrespectful of the affluent folks who can afford to (at least make an attempt to) climb her to trash the place, basically just leaving their litter behind. Bad form. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/134 "2017-05-24T21:41:30Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > [Hillary Step](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/23/mount-everests-hillary-step-is-still-there-say-nepalese-climbers&ved=0ahUKEwi5jYXOwYfUAhXIQSYKHWlQCsQQiJQBCB0wAA&usg=AFQjCNFgIdiQiW9OXKvtJzyC9In4N1GSHw&sig2=-IM-t6bb-le0TkpZTNZdBg)may be still there after all. Weird. It doesn’t seem like the sort of thing you could simply overlook on the way up… Maybe it’s kind of hard to see past the butt of the climber in front of you? Only the guide in front gets a clear view. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/135 "2017-05-24T22:32:57Z")
Just saw a preview that a story about deaths on Mt. Everrestinpeace will be on the CBS Evening News tonight. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/136 "2017-05-25T15:23:47Z")
[The 4 climbers that were found dead in tents may not have been from this year](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/r-nepal-says-bodies-of-four-everest-climbers-not-from-this-years-climbing-season-2017-5&ved=0ahUKEwjKqeqpq4vUAhUCziYKHWMEDnIQqUMIJTAC&usg=AFQjCNGwpZ7IpWmQe1dwBzmyioAaRo1X5g&sig2=aMT2ViGakHE0H6Xqhd4C-g). More conflicting information from the top of the world. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/137 "2017-05-25T15:48:27Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > I can pretty much guarantee that NO ONE who attempts Everest expects to die. They know the risks (or should, at least), but they aren’t there specifically to die tragically, or, according to you, “tragically”. > > If 6% die attempting to summit, that means 94% don’t die. For comparison, Annapurna I, the world’s 10th highest peak, has had 191 summits as of March 2012, and 61 deaths on the mountain. 43 more were killed on or in the vicinity of the massif in 2014. Almost all of the fatalities were the result of avalanche. But I wouldn’t even consider that “attempted suicide.” It’s exceptionally dangerous in a sport and place in the world that is already extraordinarily dangerous, but I agree, I can’t imagine anyone who goes there to climb is actively suicidal. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/138 "2017-05-25T16:16:48Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > [The 4 climbers that were found dead in tents may not have been from this year](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/r-nepal-says-bodies-of-four-everest-climbers-not-from-this-years-climbing-season-2017-5&ved=0ahUKEwjKqeqpq4vUAhUCziYKHWMEDnIQqUMIJTAC&usg=AFQjCNGwpZ7IpWmQe1dwBzmyioAaRo1X5g&sig2=aMT2ViGakHE0H6Xqhd4C-g). More conflicting information from the top of the world. Great. But those bodies are apparently at or near Camp IV on the South Col, and from what I’ve read the South Col isn’t a large place – maybe 2-3(?) football fields, before the slopes become prohibitive for tents or walking. That’s where Yasuko Namba died in May 1996, and where Beck Weathers was left for dead. My point is, seasoned climbers would be able to tell quickly if those bodies are new, or old. I don’t have high confidence in the accuracy of Nepal’s records at some office in Kathmandu. Besides, I suspect Nepal would be motivated to keep the death toll numbers down. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/139 "2017-05-25T16:38:34Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Besides, I suspect Nepal would be motivated to keep the death toll numbers down. The Nepali tourism department seems to ignore the possibility that they were rogue climbers without a permit. I have to assume this happens ([someone was arrested](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/17/world/asia/mount-everest-climber-arrested-permit.html) this year for climbing to Camp 1 without a permit). Isn’t this a more likely possibility than two tents with dead people sitting unnoticed for a year or more and no reports of missing climbers? ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397/140 "2017-05-25T16:51:02Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > The Nepali tourism department seems to ignore the possibility that they were rogue climbers without a permit. I have to assume this happens ([someone was arrested](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/17/world/asia/mount-everest-climber-arrested-permit.html) this year for climbing to Camp 1 without a permit). Isn’t this a more likely possibility than two tents with dead people sitting unnoticed for a year or more and no reports of missing climbers? Good point, and I agree. I have to assume this happens too. The climbing permit, AFAIK, is to allow you to climb past the icefall, and you only need a trekker’s permit to hike to base camp. I don’t know where those permits are checked, that wasn’t in any of the books I read about 1996. I could ask my friends who hiked to base camp (and told me how incredibly thin the air was there, at ‘only’ 17,600’!). I guess it’s easy enough to sneak out of base camp, cross the icefall, and sneak up the mountain. But anyone who does that likely wouldn’t be following the good acclimatizing ascents and descents to prepare well for a good summit push, because they likely wouldn’t be returning to base camp on those acclimatizing climbs (because they’d be hiding). And besides, it wouldn’t be easy to hide the fact you’re attempting a summit push, because of the extra gear you’d need. But yeah I suspect many people try it, especially if there is a minimal police force to enforce the permit limitations. Mt. Everest does a lot of enforcing, herself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/everest-just-dont-do-it/755397.md?page=8)