# Every human invention from this point on will only be an improvement or innovation of an existing product **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 4, 2026, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-human-invention-from-this-point-on-will-only-be-an-improvement-or-innovation-of-an-existing-product/1029783 "2026-05-04T19:10:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2026, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-human-invention-from-this-point-on-will-only-be-an-improvement-or-innovation-of-an-existing-product/1029783/41 "2026-05-15T13:30:36Z")
> [@Charlie\_Tan](#): > > But, on the other hand, what makes an Ai lie, hallucinate and act as sycophantic as it does? That seems to be an emergent ‘feature’ and might point to some sort of agency. Nothing quite that complicated, I’m afraid; it’s just an alignment problem: > **[AI alignment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_alignment)** > > In the field of artificial intelligence (AI), alignment aims to steer AI systems toward a person's or group's intended goals, preferences, or ethical principles. An AI system is considered aligned if it advances the intended objectives. A misaligned AI system pursues unintended objectives. > It is often difficult for AI designers to specify the full range of desired and undesired behaviors. Therefore, the designers often use simpler proxy goals, such as gaining human approval. But proxy goals c... The problem is that, even between two humans communicating through speech and _certainly_ between a human and an AI system that makes decisions in a _very_ inhuman and alien way, you can have serious issues in defining what you want the agent to do in a way that the agent can understand and follow. > [@Charlie\_Tan](#): > > but I still think it’s worth exploring beyond fixing the bug. That’s certainly true, because alignment problems are a universal feature of system design. Any system we build, AI or not, has to worry about this stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2026, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-human-invention-from-this-point-on-will-only-be-an-improvement-or-innovation-of-an-existing-product/1029783/42 "2026-05-15T13:41:51Z")
> Roman engineer Julius Sextus Frontinus (circa A.D. 10) wrote, “Inventions have long since reached their limit, and I see no hope for further developments”. I think he was a little off base with that comment. 🤣 There will always be new inventions, at least for the foreseeable future. Some will be relatively little ideas that, for some reason, no one thought of before. Others will be momentous. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2026, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-human-invention-from-this-point-on-will-only-be-an-improvement-or-innovation-of-an-existing-product/1029783/43 "2026-05-15T14:29:19Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > That’s certainly true, because alignment problems are a universal feature of system design. Any system we build, AI or not, has to worry about this stuff. Alignment, by that term, is a commonplace in any discussion involving management or agents. I know you know that, but some folks might not. When selling a house, getting your sales agent to have the same goals you do is an example of an alignment problem. You both want a sale, and sooner is better for both of you. But the terms of the tradeoff between “How much cheaper price to accept” versus “How much quicker / easier sale to make” are _very_ different between you both. Getting middle management to support the Board’s goals about profits and shareholder value over the middle managers’ own petty empire building and competing w their peers over the next promotion is another alignment problem. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2026, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-human-invention-from-this-point-on-will-only-be-an-improvement-or-innovation-of-an-existing-product/1029783/44 "2026-05-20T18:32:14Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > Just the capability of copying a human mindstate would be a significant development, but not one I expect to happen in anyone’s lifespan today. Just yesterday Star Talk had a [13-minute video](https://youtu.be/-h7rNY09B2I) that touches upon the subject of uploading consciousness. They were talking about making one immortal but the upload is the first step in teleportation. TLDW: If consciousness involves quantum physics the possibility of uploading it is a firm no. ---
**Author:** ![We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/We_re_wolves_not_werewolves)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2026, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-human-invention-from-this-point-on-will-only-be-an-improvement-or-innovation-of-an-existing-product/1029783/45 "2026-05-20T19:28:31Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Exactly this. It reminds me of the experts in Newtonian physics who declared, just prior to Einstein’s first landmark paper on the photoelectric effect, that there was pretty much nothing left for physics to discover! apparently it was Max Planck’s advisor who said something along these lines in advising him _not_ to go into theoretical physics because it was a mature science with little left to discover (in 1874!): [https://hsm.stackexchange.com/questions/2129/who-said-that-essentially-everything-in-theoretical-physics-had-already-been-dis](https://hsm.stackexchange.com/questions/2129/who-said-that-essentially-everything-in-theoretical-physics-had-already-been-dis) But yeah, pretty shortsighed post by the OP ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2026, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-human-invention-from-this-point-on-will-only-be-an-improvement-or-innovation-of-an-existing-product/1029783/46 "2026-05-20T19:51:12Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > TLDW: If consciousness involves quantum physics the possibility of uploading it is a firm no. Well, yes and no. Quantum information can’t be copied exactly, because of the no-cloning theorem; but that doesn’t rule out a classical copy. A classical copy would not be exactly the same individual, but it could be practically indistinguishable by an external observer. That means there could be two of you, like the twin Rikers in Star Trek. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2026, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-human-invention-from-this-point-on-will-only-be-an-improvement-or-innovation-of-an-existing-product/1029783/47 "2026-05-20T21:56:36Z")
Well, if were talking teleportation the one back home is destroyed, of course. Can’t have two Rikers walking around. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2026, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-human-invention-from-this-point-on-will-only-be-an-improvement-or-innovation-of-an-existing-product/1029783/48 "2026-05-20T22:17:34Z")
From wiki, here is a list of years with shifts in the scientific paradigm: 1543 1543 1687 1783 1826 1832 1859 1880 1901 1905 1919 1920 1952 1964 1965 1969 1973 1974 They average 25 years apart +/- 78 years. The list does not include genome sequencing or changes in approach such as the evidence based medicine movement. Yes, I’m blurring my terminology. We still haven’t figured out consciousness. Where there are new paradigms, there is potential for new applications. I say there’s more juice to squeeze in the orange. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2026, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-human-invention-from-this-point-on-will-only-be-an-improvement-or-innovation-of-an-existing-product/1029783/49 "2026-05-20T22:19:43Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Just yesterday Star Talk had a [13-minute video](https://youtu.be/-h7rNY09B2I) that touches upon the subject of uploading consciousness. They were talking about making one immortal but the upload is the first step in teleportation. > > TLDW: If consciousness involves quantum physics the possibility of uploading it is a firm no. The idea that consciousness has anything to do with quantum mechanics is abject nonsense – lt’s pseudo-scientific claptrap, not neuroscience. There are innumerable areas in science where our understanding is incomplete; the nature of consciousness and quantum physics are just two such areas, but there’s no more reason to believe that one is the foundation for the other than to believe that quantum phenomena explain why your cat likes to perch at the top of the cat tree. That video struck me as akin to late-night college dorm room philosophizing after consuming a fair amount of potent weed. It wasn’t science, and especially not after one of the participants used the laughable term “quantum awareness”. The facts are that we have a good basic understanding of the biophysics of brain function and that consciousness is evident not just in humans but in lower mammals. It manifests not at some magic threshold but as a continuous emergent property of scale. As for uploading a human brain, it will undoubtedly be possible (and will be based only on sophisticated applications of classical physics) and has already been done for very simple life forms. It’s a daunting task for the human brain because of the tremendous scale involved, but there’s already serious research into some of the essential precursor technologies such as **[light-microscopy-based connectomics (LICONN)](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-025-08985-1)**. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2026, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-human-invention-from-this-point-on-will-only-be-an-improvement-or-innovation-of-an-existing-product/1029783/50 "2026-05-21T00:22:49Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > The idea that consciousness has anything to do with quantum mechanics is abject nonsense – lt’s pseudo-scientific claptrap, not neuroscience. Well, lemme see. I should listen to Neil deGrasse Tyson and [Charles Liu](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Liu), or a dog. CV does count for something. ---
**Author:** ![keeganst94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a6a055/32.png) [@keeganst94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keeganst94)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2026, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-human-invention-from-this-point-on-will-only-be-an-improvement-or-innovation-of-an-existing-product/1029783/51 "2026-05-21T00:41:15Z")
Neil and Charles Liu are about as unqualified as wolfpup, for all we know maybe more so. They’re astronomers and science communicators. They have no background in neurology or the relevant fields of physics. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2026, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-human-invention-from-this-point-on-will-only-be-an-improvement-or-innovation-of-an-existing-product/1029783/52 "2026-05-21T01:12:50Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > I never imagined that AIs which mimic human behaviour would be subject to bizarre hallucinations and confident statements of untruth. Well, if they didn’t, they wouldn’t be mimicking human behavior very well, now would they? > [@jjakucyk](#): > > Imagine you could go back in time to 1980 and described what computers are like today. Anyone who was somewhat familiar with computers at that time would be wowed because they know what computers are and the sorts of limitations they have, but the general concept is the same. Go to 1850 and try to describe a computer to even the smartest individual and it would be nigh impossible. They don’t even have a concept of a screen, or a keyboard, or anything other than pretty rudimentary mechanical devices. Ironically, though, computers now would be easier to explain to Abraham Lincoln than computers 20 years ago would have been. Because now, a computer can be a device that you talk to and it talks back. How it works under the hood would be a mystery to him, but then, it’s a mystery to most of us, too. But the interface would be familiar. > [@wolfpup](#): > > There are innumerable areas in science where our understanding is incomplete; the nature of consciousness and quantum physics are just two such areas The main problem with consciousness is just getting people to agree on the same definition. Once you’ve got a definition, it’s easy to study. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2026, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-human-invention-from-this-point-on-will-only-be-an-improvement-or-innovation-of-an-existing-product/1029783/53 "2026-05-23T20:12:35Z")
I’d say CRSPR is a recent unanticipated innovation that has revolutionized things. AI is getting there - it is far different from the AI I studied 55 years ago, much of which is in our phones today. A vaccine for cancer would qualify as a revolutionary innovation. It can’t be done with just a slightly better current vaccine. It is being worked on. AGI would be another. Truly understanding gravity, ditto. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2026, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-human-invention-from-this-point-on-will-only-be-an-improvement-or-innovation-of-an-existing-product/1029783/54 "2026-05-23T20:40:31Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Truly understanding gravity, ditto. When people say this, they usually mean “we could control it like we do electromagnetism”. But unfortunately, we can already control it like we do electromagnetism. Fundamentally, we manipulate electric fields by moving charges around. And we can manipulate gravity by moving masses around, too. The problem is just that gravity is so mindbogglingly weak that the masses we would need to move around for any practical effect would be stupendously large. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2026, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-human-invention-from-this-point-on-will-only-be-an-improvement-or-innovation-of-an-existing-product/1029783/55 "2026-05-24T17:50:35Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And we can manipulate gravity by moving masses around, too. Well, I agree we manipulate gravity by moving masses, but that is just applying various vectors that may result in movement up if their force is greater than gravity from earth. I’m talking about truly understanding it, which I didn’t do an hour ago when I threw a basketball at a net. Whether understanding gravity will give us anti-gravity and space drives is unknown, but it would be a big change. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-human-invention-from-this-point-on-will-only-be-an-improvement-or-innovation-of-an-existing-product/1029783.md?page=2)