# Every Immigrant Suddenly Vanishes from the USA... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 3, 2009, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-immigrant-suddenly-vanishes-from-the-usa/519828 "2009-12-03T08:28:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2009, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-immigrant-suddenly-vanishes-from-the-usa/519828/101 "2009-12-04T20:07:55Z")
If all the Mexicans are gone, who’s going to build the wall between us and Mexico? White labor is too expensive. Consequently, the disappearance of all the Mexicans will make illegal immigration from Mexico a serious, unsolvable problem. ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2009, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-immigrant-suddenly-vanishes-from-the-usa/519828/102 "2009-12-04T20:30:09Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > However, the topic does bring up the question as to should we continue to have immigration at all. > > Do we really “need” more people living in this country? > > Do we really need hundreds of millions of more people living here? > > Do we really have so many unfilled jobs that we need to import hundreds of millions of more job seekers? Currently over 43% of engineers in the U.S. are foreign born. Do you really think that if we stopped all immigration, American engineers would appear from the darkness and fill their spots? (cite: [http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/seind96/ch3\_immi.htm](http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/seind96/ch3_immi.htm)) ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2009, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-immigrant-suddenly-vanishes-from-the-usa/519828/103 "2009-12-04T21:17:28Z")
Do we really “need” more people living in California? Perhaps we should wall up its borders and not allow anyone to move in from any other states. Do we really “need” more people living in New York City? Perhaps we should wall up its borders and not allow anyone to move in from any other cities. But of course no one proposes such a thing, because no one has any problem thinking “Well, what if I was an American from elsewhere who might like to live there, and could find willing providers of housing and employment and so on. What business is it of anyone else’s whether I get to move in, even if they do hate out-of-towners? Who cares if they don’t like my accent or whatever other hometown influences I carry? Who cares that they would prefer to take themselves the jobs being offered to me and so on? They have no more God-given right to those things than I do.” It’s apparently much easier to sympathize with Americans than with faceless foreigners, but I don’t see any moral difference… ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2009, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-immigrant-suddenly-vanishes-from-the-usa/519828/104 "2009-12-04T21:18:02Z")
> [@Palo\_Verde](#): > > Currently over 43% of engineers in the U.S. are foreign born. Do you really think that if we stopped all immigration, American engineers would appear from the darkness and fill their spots? > > (cite: [http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/seind96/ch3\_immi.htm](http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/seind96/ch3_immi.htm)) Not only that, if foreign born engineers vanished, companies would respond by moving more jobs overseas, where the incomes from these jobs would get spent instead of being spent here. Not to mention, why wouldn’t we want to get the very best and brightest engineers from India and China here? We get the benefit of their undergraduate educations without paying for it. It is a fantastic deal for us. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2009, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-immigrant-suddenly-vanishes-from-the-usa/519828/105 "2009-12-04T21:49:30Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > Do we really “need” more people living in California? Perhaps we should wall up its borders and not allow anyone to move in from any other states. > > Do we really “need” more people living in New York City? Perhaps we should wall up its borders and not allow anyone to move in from any other cities. > > But of course no one proposes such a thing, because no one has any problem thinking “Well, what if I was an American from elsewhere who might like to live there, and could find willing providers of housing and employment and so on. What business is it of anyone else’s whether I get to move in, even if they do hate out-of-towners? Who cares if they don’t like my accent or whatever other hometown influences I carry? Who cares that they would prefer to take themselves the jobs being offered to me and so on? They have no more God-given right to those things than I do.” It’s apparently much easier to sympathize with Americans than with faceless foreigners, but I don’t see any moral difference… I don’t either. And this isn’t political, but having people from all walks of life and cultures is part of what makes living in an urban environment so great. If a return to the values of the 1940s means getting rid of all the immigrants, then man, I’m glad that’s not going to happen any time soon. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2009, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-immigrant-suddenly-vanishes-from-the-usa/519828/106 "2009-12-04T22:00:02Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > What makes you think they’ll want to come anymore? It’s more likely you couldn’t get many of them to come short of kidnapping them. > . Well assuming the vanishing event is a once off then lots and lots will want to come to America. Lots of poor people in Mexico who would happily move supported by a Mexican government who would love to get rid of them. > [@](#): > > Probably under the same awful conditions and low wages ( even if we have to change the laws to allow it ). Or we’ll just use prison labor instead, or arrest even more of that underclass and _ **then** _ use them as prison labor If we enforce labour laws, then no. They are US citizens. No stigma of deportation over them (not that immigration laws are that heavilly enforced now). Would do wonders for the black working class/underclass. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2009, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-immigrant-suddenly-vanishes-from-the-usa/519828/107 "2009-12-04T23:06:10Z")
Its weird. We’re discussing how things were in the ‘40’s, and how some people think they were better in th’ old days. I feel like something’s missing. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2009, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-immigrant-suddenly-vanishes-from-the-usa/519828/108 "2009-12-04T23:46:25Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > That’s interesting. But I don’t get why, after hearing what you did at the supermarket, you jumped to ponder about ALL immigrants. That’s certainly not a common complaint. The complaint is about illegal immigrants. I have NEVER heard anyone rant that we shouldn’t have any immigration at all (except for possibly a short moratorium, to encourage assimilation). My guess is that you didn’t go that route with your hypothetical because the world with no illegals would turn out just fine. I have no idea where you get that idea from. Look, I live in Australia, and I’m an immigrant to Australia, FWIW. Australia still has a lot of casual racism directed at people of different ethnicities (and it goes both ways; it’s not all white folks deriding “Abbos” or “Wogs”). Almost all of those ethnicities were either here before the British, or emigrated legally afterwards. Yet (some) people don’t like them being here. Remember, Australia had an official “White Australia” policy until the 1970s(!), OK? Just to put it in some perspective. And the people making the unfortunate comments in the supermarket implied that the disparaged ethnicity had probably not come to Australia through the proper channels- which, is, frankly, unlikely. Now, if I created a thread about illegal immigrants alone, it would be another tired SDMB cliche-fest and wouldn’t generate any new discussion. And it would get really, really political in a very short space of time. But then I thought “Hey, I don’t recall a thread discussing what would happen if the _legal_ immigrants left as well. That might be really interesting as a discussion point” But I can see that really, I’m just wasting my time trying to create thoughtful, intelligent OPs that are something a bit different from the usual “US Politics du jour” stuff found in GD. Because clearly I’m a racist who hates Foreigners for even thinking about such a thread, right? Obviously I really wanted to discuss illegal immigrants but thought I’d better be all PC about it and throw in the “oh, and legal immigrants too!” clause to cover my Foreigner-hating tracks, right? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-immigrant-suddenly-vanishes-from-the-usa/519828/109 "2009-12-05T00:06:55Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > Well assuming the vanishing event is a once off then lots and lots will want to come to America. Lots of poor people in Mexico who would happily move supported by a Mexican government who would love to get rid of them. I don’t think that the Mexican government is genocidal, and I don’t think people would assume it was a one off event. > [@Lochdale](#): > > If we enforce labour laws, then no. They are US citizens. No stigma of deportation over them (not that immigration laws are that heavilly enforced now). Would do wonders for the black working class/underclass. Hardly; they’de be beaten down, cheated and abused for profit just like the immigrants are. The ones that aren’t scooped up for use as prison labor. Nor would I expect labor laws to be enforced; they’d be pretty much eliminated “for the duration of the emergency”, aka permanently. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-immigrant-suddenly-vanishes-from-the-usa/519828/110 "2009-12-05T00:14:50Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I don’t think that the Mexican government is genocidal, and I don’t think people would assume it was a one off event. > > . Well then it’s a totally different debate we are having. Everyone might leave America fearing that they would be next. > [@](#): > > Hardly; they’de be beaten down, cheated and abused for profit just like the immigrants are. The ones that aren’t scooped up for use as prison labor. Nor would I expect labor laws to be enforced; they’d be pretty much eliminated “for the duration of the emergency”, aka permanently Not at all. We have strick labour laws and there are enough lawyers, police, judges etc. to see that this doesn’t happen. The employee plaintiff’s bar alone would cause mayhem. Prison labor? I’m confused. What do you mean by this? Employers would be forced to hire and indeed pay the black working class a decent wage. The horror. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-immigrant-suddenly-vanishes-from-the-usa/519828/111 "2009-12-05T00:15:43Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > Thanks **villa**. I was beginning to think I was hallucinating. > > **Susanann** , I don’t think you’re reading carefully. Multiple times within this thread the comment has been made that the purveyors of discrimination would turn on native born targets - black people, and semi-facetiously, red-haired people, or ‘gingers’, if immigrants disappeared. you ARE!!! hallucinating. you obviously do not seem to be understanding this topic at all. EXCUSE ME??? Exactly how many people here admitted to that they would turn to discriminating against native born American black citizens if we deported all illegals and halted all immigration??? Come on!! GIVE US AN EXACT COUNT of all on this thread who said they would do so, AND THEN LIST THEM ALL out so we can check to see if you are a liar or not. Frankly, I dont think anybody here would do such , and I didnt see a lot of people saying that they would start discriminating against the black people. Please list all those on this thread who clearly said they would…else we expect an apology. The fact that you were making this comment without any sort of recognition of this fact suggests you didn’t think about this. Your comments again suggests that you are not reading the thread carefully. If you have any difficulty in this regard, or perhaps I’m being to subtle, I’ll spell it out more carefully. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-immigrant-suddenly-vanishes-from-the-usa/519828/112 "2009-12-05T00:23:24Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > you ARE!!! hallucinating. > > you obviously do not seem to be understanding this topic at all. > > EXCUSE ME??? > > Exactly how many people here admitted to that they would turn to discriminating against native born American black citizens if we deported all illegals and halted all immigration??? > > … > > Your comments again suggests that you are not reading the thread carefully. If you have any difficulty in this regard, or perhaps I’m being to subtle, I’ll spell it out more carefully. One more time: **THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION**. It is about what would happen if ALL immigrants suddenly vanished from the US. Can we please stop the “illegal immigration” tangents? They have nothing to do with the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-immigrant-suddenly-vanishes-from-the-usa/519828/113 "2009-12-05T00:24:53Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > Its weird. We’re discussing how things were in the ‘40’s, and how some people think they were better in th’ old days. I feel like something’s missing. YOu are. We are not talking about the 1940’s aspects of living without television, nor are we talking about no cell phones, nor are we talking about women wearing skirts all the time, nor are we talking about living without civil rights nor about living without the Miranda Decision. We are talking about the 1940’s… as it relates to and ending of immigration, as it relates to a lower population, to less crowding, to less pollution, less crime, less unemployment, less welfare, less energy and less resources being used. This topic is not about a time machine Get it now? ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-immigrant-suddenly-vanishes-from-the-usa/519828/114 "2009-12-05T00:30:05Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > One more time: > > **THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION**. > > “illegal immigration” have nothing to do with the OP. Yes it does. For your information, illegal IMMIGRANTS, are…IMMIGRANTS!!! For your information, illegal IMMIGRANTS, are…IMMIGRANTS!!! For your information, illegal IMMIGRANTS, are…IMMIGRANTS!!! Yes, it is about illegal immigrants. An illegal immigrant is a kind of immigrant. If we are talking about immigrants, then necessarilyk, we are of course also talking about illegal immigrants.. We have 10, 20, or perhaps even up to 30 million illegal immigrants in this country, and way too many to be insignificant and way too many to be left out of the conversation. Got it? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-immigrant-suddenly-vanishes-from-the-usa/519828/115 "2009-12-05T00:30:05Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > We are talking about the 1940’s… as it relates to and ending of immigration, as it relates to a lower population, to less crowding, to less pollution, less crime, less unemployment, less welfare, less energy and less resources being used. > > This topic is not about a time machine > > Get it now? Then I suppose you are rooting for a nice plague also. That should take us back there just as effectively. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-immigrant-suddenly-vanishes-from-the-usa/519828/116 "2009-12-05T00:34:02Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > Yes it does. > > For your information, illegal IMMIGRANTS, are…IMMIGRANTS!!! > For your information, illegal IMMIGRANTS, are…IMMIGRANTS!!! > For your information, illegal IMMIGRANTS, are…IMMIGRANTS!!! > > Yes, it is about illegal immigrants. An illegal immigrant is a kind of immigrant. > > If we are talking about immigrants, then necessarilyk, we are of course also talking about illegal immigrants.. We have 10, 20, or perhaps even up to 30 million illegal immigrants in this country, and way too many to be insignificant and way too many to be left out of the conversation. > > Got it? I’m the one who wrote the OP. The purpose is to discuss what would happen in America if every. single. immigrant- legal or otherwise- suddenly vanished. It’s not to discuss the implications of illegal immigration or anything like that. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-immigrant-suddenly-vanishes-from-the-usa/519828/117 "2009-12-05T00:40:11Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > Not at all. We have strick labour laws and there are enough lawyers, police, judges etc. to see that this doesn’t happen. The employee plaintiff’s bar alone would cause mayhem. You must be living on another planet. Our labor laws are pathetic and have been eviscerated by repeated Republican governments. The lawyers, police, judges and what not are generally on the other side. > [@Lochdale](#): > > Prison labor? I’m confused. What do you mean by this? Employers would be forced to hire and indeed pay the black working class a decent wage. The horror. Or they’d be rounded up to be used as prison labor. A significant and growing part of our economy. If we suddenly needed a large number of abusable cheap laborers, increasing the persecution of that underclass and rounding them up for forced labor is a likely path we’ll take. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-immigrant-suddenly-vanishes-from-the-usa/519828/118 "2009-12-05T01:03:13Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > you ARE!!! hallucinating. > > you obviously do not seem to be understanding this topic at all. You are changing the topic. This thread is about what would happen if all immigrants vanished. If you want to discuss why immigration is bad, or why illegal immigrants need to be deported immediately or some different but tangential subject, start a new thread. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-immigrant-suddenly-vanishes-from-the-usa/519828/119 "2009-12-05T01:17:58Z")
[xxx ear. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-immigrant-suddenly-vanishes-from-the-usa/519828/120 "2009-12-05T01:34:50Z")
Odd question–if I were to run an ad in UK newspapers, asking to marry an attractive “ginger” girl, & carry her away to the US, where nobody cares about “gingerness”, do you think I might get takers? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-immigrant-suddenly-vanishes-from-the-usa/519828.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-immigrant-suddenly-vanishes-from-the-usa/519828.md?page=7)