# Every true Scotsman uses the MACGUFFIN! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 13, 2008, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-true-scotsman-uses-the-macguffin/452828 "2008-06-13T17:19:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-true-scotsman-uses-the-macguffin/452828/1 "2008-06-13T17:19:47Z")
A Macguffin, for those three of you who don’t know, is a plot element in a story that drives the plot or motivates the characters, but is not in itself terribly important to the audience. Typically it’s a physical object the protagonist is trying to find in the course of his or her question. The Maltese Falcon is a classic example; the One Ring is sort of a counter-example. MacGuffins are also the topic of this thread. What examples in literature, cinema, television, and theatre are most memorable to you, and why? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-true-scotsman-uses-the-macguffin/452828/2 "2008-06-13T17:43:01Z")
Marcellus Wallace’s briefcase in **Pulp Fiction**. The 666 combination. The golden light. The stunned looks when people see what’s inside. Brilliant. And yet, to show the audience what’s inside would have been an insane letdown. Because it doesn’t matter what’s inside. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-true-scotsman-uses-the-macguffin/452828/3 "2008-06-13T18:06:27Z")
Hitchcock’s original definition was “The thing the spies are after.” I recently rewatched **Repo Man** , where the McGuffin is a shitty car with dead aliens in the trunk. It, too, features the golden light inside and stunned looks on people’s faces when they see it. Plus, death and disintegration! ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-true-scotsman-uses-the-macguffin/452828/4 "2008-06-13T18:10:13Z")
I’ve never found this concept to be very clear. The OP offers a “counter example” of the One Ring. I understand the OP to be saying the One Ring is _not_ a MacGuffin. But the One Ring could have been anything. It could have been the One Blade, or the One Cloak or the One Coin or whatever you like. (Clearly not the One Banana, but then, the Maltese Falcon couldn’t have been the Maltese Banana either.) How is the One Ring not a MacGuffin? What would be a _clear_ example of an object from a movie that is _not_ a MacGuffin? That might help me get clear about this… -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-true-scotsman-uses-the-macguffin/452828/5 "2008-06-13T18:10:58Z")
The steel briefcase in _Ronin._ Classic, especially when we learn Sam was never interested in it at all – his assignment is to assassinate Seamus, who **is** after the case. In any . . . case . . . as with the briefcase in _Pulp Fiction,_ we never learn what was in it, and it doesn’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-true-scotsman-uses-the-macguffin/452828/6 "2008-06-13T18:15:57Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] I’ve never found this concept to be very clear. The OP offers a “counter example” of the One Ring. I understand the OP to be saying the One Ring is _not_ a MacGuffin. [/quote] What I mean is the One Ring isn’t something the protagonist is trying to find. Frodo et al aren’t LOOKING for the ring; they’re trying to get rid of it. Thus it is a counter-example in the sense that a MacGuffin is the object of the protagonist’s quest. That isn’t the ONLY sense in which MacGuffin can be used; I was just stealing a march and pointing out the Anti-MacGuffin status of the Ring before someone else did. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-true-scotsman-uses-the-macguffin/452828/7 "2008-06-13T18:16:02Z")
[Relevant page.](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MacGuffin) > [@](#): > > Contrast with the One Ring from The Lord Of The Rings: that is an Artifact Of Doom, not a MacGuffin, because what it can do for (and do to) the owner is crucial to the story, and is clearly outlined in the books. (I [just discovered tvtropes](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=471092) and I’m going to be linking to it in CS a **lot** from now on. 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-true-scotsman-uses-the-macguffin/452828/8 "2008-06-13T18:21:35Z")
Do you know MacGuffin Man MacGuffin Man MacGuffin Man Do you know MacGuffin Man Who lives on Drury Lane? He’s chasing down a Maltese bird A shiny box A phoenix turd And every plot device that soothes A lazy writer’s brain! ---
**Author:** ![Interrobang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/interrobang/32/17463_2.png) [@Interrobang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Interrobang)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-true-scotsman-uses-the-macguffin/452828/9 "2008-06-13T18:28:27Z")
The Ark of the Covenant in _Raiders_. Ultimately, it was an Amazing Mythical Object that motivated a bunch of awesome action sequences. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-true-scotsman-uses-the-macguffin/452828/10 "2008-06-13T18:30:10Z")
[Year of the Comet](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0105871/) The McGuffin was a bottle of wine, vintage 1811. It’s a fun little comedy that apparently I am the only person to ever see. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-true-scotsman-uses-the-macguffin/452828/11 "2008-06-13T18:37:17Z")
[QUOTE=Interrobang!?] The Ark of the Covenant in _Raiders_. Ultimately, it was an Amazing Mythical Object that motivated a bunch of awesome action sequences. [/QUOTE] It was also an almost literal Deus Ex Machina. It Simultaneously a)killed off the bad guys, b) freed the hero and the girl and c) instantly transported the hero with the ark via a quick edit to Washington DC, thereby avoiding any further “adventures.” ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-true-scotsman-uses-the-macguffin/452828/12 "2008-06-13T18:45:39Z")
I think this is a macguffin. It’s the first thing that popped in my head. There are posters on the internet who write crap saying that a Bluntman and Chronic movie being made would totally suck because Jay and Silent Bob totally suck. The whole movie is Jay and Bob going to Hollywood to stop the movie being made so people on the internet would stop making fun of them. And I love at the end how they take all the money they made off the movie to fly all over the USA to beat up the people who made fun of them on the internet in the very beginning of the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-true-scotsman-uses-the-macguffin/452828/13 "2008-06-13T18:46:39Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] What would be a _clear_ example of an object from a movie that is _not_ a MacGuffin? That might help me get clear about this… -FrL- [/QUOTE] I’m sure someone will come along to argue, but one that comes to mind is the Genesis Device from Wrath of Khan/Search for Spock. Given how close it comes to killing the entire crew crew (and does in fact indirectly kill Our Favorite Vulcan), and that it also brings him back to life, the nature of the device does matter; it’s not just a generic story mover. BrainGlutton posted a link to the Wikipedia page, which, like many such, has a remarkably stupid list at the end. I refer to the inclusion of "fertility’ in _Children of Men._ Oh, how I hate some Wikipedia editors. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-true-scotsman-uses-the-macguffin/452828/14 "2008-06-13T19:17:45Z")
The \*\*Bluntman and Chronic \*\* movie is not an example of a MacGuffin. Not all plot devices are MacGuffins. A MacGuffin is an object, and to qualify as a MacGuffin it has to be an object that could be changed at the last minute to just about anything, and it wouldn’t make a difference. So if the spies are chasing the secret plans all through the movie, it doesn’t matter what the secret plans are for. They are secret plans, the good spies want them, the bad spies want them, but the audience doesn’t care if the secret plans are for Classic Coke or Steve Austin’s bionic leg. The plans have nothing to do with the plot of the movie. Likewise, if the characters are fighting over a briefcase full of gold, or industrial diamonds, or U-235, the audience doesn’t care. The briefcase only exists in order for the characters to have something to fight over. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-true-scotsman-uses-the-macguffin/452828/15 "2008-06-13T19:20:07Z")
[QUOTE=Skald the Rhymer] BrainGlutton posted a link to the Wikipedia page . . . [/QUOTE] [tvtropes,](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HomePage) not Wikipedia. A Wiki, but a different Wiki. (As with Wikipedia, if you disagree with what’s there you can do your own editing or make your own addition.) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-true-scotsman-uses-the-macguffin/452828/16 "2008-06-13T19:44:36Z")
There’s a MacGuffin subplot in the 1972 Ryan O’Neil/Barbra Streisand movie _What’s Up Doc?_ Their characters are coincidentally carrying plaid overnight bags that are identical to each other as well as to those of a wealthy woman carrying a great deal of jewelry and a man carrying a trove of government documents. The subsequent mixups (involving a determined jewel thief and a government agent seeking to recover the documents) form the comedic backdrop of the film. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-true-scotsman-uses-the-macguffin/452828/17 "2008-06-13T19:47:56Z")
The money in Ocean’s Eleven, the Faberge egg in Twelve, and whatever the object of the heist is in Thirteen, which is sitting on my DVD player waiting to be watched. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-true-scotsman-uses-the-macguffin/452828/18 "2008-06-13T19:53:36Z")
Off the top of my head, James Bond movies that involve MacGuffins include: _From Russia With Love_: The “Lektor” decoding device. _Diamonds are Forever_: The last smuggled shipment of gems to enable the “laser satellite” _The Man With the Golden Gun_: The “Solex” device _For Your Eyes Only_: The “ATAC” targeting computer _Octopussy_: The fake Fabergé egg ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-true-scotsman-uses-the-macguffin/452828/19 "2008-06-13T20:46:50Z")
The “letters of transit” in _Casablanca_ have been described as a McGuffin on this board. But after reading this thread, I’m not sure. The key to the letters was that they enabled the bearer to leave Casablanca, which was critical to the plot. If they had been a decoder ring or a power pack the story wouldn’t have worked. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-true-scotsman-uses-the-macguffin/452828/20 "2008-06-13T21:20:28Z")
[QUOTE=Freddy the Pig] The “letters of transit” in _Casablanca_ have been described as a McGuffin on this board. But after reading this thread, I’m not sure. The key to the letters was that they enabled the bearer to leave Casablanca, which was critical to the plot. If they had been a decoder ring or a power pack the story wouldn’t have worked. [/QUOTE] The problem is that, when Ilsa and Victor leave, they don’t use the letters of transit. The one person likely to stop them – Major Strasser – would not have cared about the letters of transit: he only lets them go because Rick is carrying a gun and kills Strasser. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/every-true-scotsman-uses-the-macguffin/452828.md?page=2)